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acne (Misplaced Anger)

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Posted by Geena on June 08, 1999 at 00:30:11:

You never give direct answers. You are extremely vague. You are insulting and rude. And you call yourself a doctor? The only thing that I see and it is very apparent is that you are this way{vague in answering and you talk only about your book} is you are just trying to get people to buy your book. I came into this site and read your crap and you made me sick because your not very smart. Sure all this meditation is fine and dandy and it will bring down your stress level but lets face it people like me that have had years of experience know better than you Walt. That women have a whole body of hormones that effect us in many different ways. First off you wouldnt know, never will so how can you give advice to a woman. Acne is caused for many different reasons and your little book will not cure it for alot of people out there so quit lying to all the sufferers so you can gain profit of your half assed advice. I dont know you but I would never buy your book because I can see what kind of a person you are just by reading your entries. How can you speak of spirituality when you are so nasty and self centered.



Re: acne

Posted by
trish on June 08, 1999 at 00:49:55:

In Reply to: acne posted by Geena on June 08, 1999 at 00:30:11:

Whoa!

Geena - first of all, learn to write in English. It's more effective. Second of all, "nasty and self Centered"??? Take a look at what you wrote - YOU come off as nasty and self centered; a really bitter person.

It sounds like you've been disappointed in your own quest to cure your acne. Do you expect Walt to cure other people's acne FOR them??? To learn what they have to learn FOR them??

Why don't you just stick with the all other, nice, spiritual, smart, women doctors who seem to have helped you so much in the past...we can't help you here.

trish



Re: acne & Anger - Vote with your Feet!

Posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on June 08, 1999 at 09:26:58:

In Reply to: Re: acne posted by trish on June 08, 1999 at 00:49:55:

My very first guess when I read what you wrote was that I could easily guess what time of the month this is for you. That said, Now I must write on the blackboard 50 times, "I am all Love and I send only Love!"

I'm with Trish on this one. What you wrote came across.... well, never mind.

My suggestion for you and for anyone else is that if you don't like it here, Vote With Your Feet. But you may well leave something unique and very valuable behind in doing so. This is Not a mainstream medical site and therefore what you see and get here will be somewhat different (and hopefully much more effective) than in other places. Angry words directed at Walt will do you, him, or the rest of us little good, and doing so probably raised your stress level quite a bit for hours afterwards. How high are your shoulders? Of course, it is your choice, and I believe it is important to make choices, rather than to just react.

About going back to your old doctor, as Trish suggested, remember, (even if it IS Walt that is always saying this!) that "If you keep on doing what you've always done, don't expect to get anything different (much less better) than you've always gotten.

I learned a long time ago that the only person I can really change is myself (and often that is tough :-). So I (or you) are probably wasting my (or your) time and energy if I (or you) try to change anyone else (and trying to change Walt by yelling at him -- well, good luck :-).



this is not a post about acne

Posted by Pete R on June 08, 1999 at 12:46:54:

In Reply to: acne posted by Geena on June 08, 1999 at 00:30:11:

Your post is about anger. We here value Dr. Stoll's advice so if you feel you are not getting your money's worth, please leave. You don't have to be a jerk about it.

Given that, I do agree with a "few" of your points:

"You never give direct answers." This statement is NOT true. But once in a while Dr. Stoll can be cryptic. We usually know what he meant because we have followed this site for some time. Sorry, but this self-help stuff does take a little bit of WORK on YOUR part.

"You are extremely vague." I agree that after he has repeated the same answer to the same question over 100 times he does slip up and give a less than detailed response. But we all get tired you know.

"You are insulting and rude." I thought once or twice that the Doctor met this criteria but usually he had to be pushed into it. 99.999% of the time he is not and it is YOU that is insulting and rude.

"And you call yourself a doctor?" If you read his posts you would see that he clearly is.

You are just unhappy that his sometimes brief advice makes no sense to you. Maybe a wellness program won't help you but you have no right to make such statements.

"...you are just trying to get people to buy your book." I can't argue that Dr. Stoll tries to sell his book. But we all have to make money. Don't you? The fact that he can make some money does NOT make his advice invalid.

"I came into this site and read your crap and you made me sick because your not very smart." ...what can I say? Lets see: you read some crap, and that crap you read made you sick, and all this because someone is not very smart? Wow! You are not only mean spirited but, no offense, you don't sound like the sharpest knife in the drawer either.




Re: acne & Anger - Vote with your Feet!

Posted by
trish on June 08, 1999 at 14:15:11:

In Reply to: Re: acne & Anger - Vote with your Feet! posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on June 08, 1999 at 09:26:58:

Jim,

I thought you were directing this at ME at first!!!

whew.

trish



Re: acne

Posted by
TY on June 08, 1999 at 15:18:30:

In Reply to: acne posted by Geena on June 08, 1999 at 00:30:11:

Geena, I agree with you 100%! I don't like the advice he gives on acne either (it seems that acne advice is especially vague).
And the problem with the rest of you: why are you so bent on Walt's side anyway? I doubt that his advice has really ever helped ANYBODY on acne... I give better advice than he does!
Like Geena said, it's hard for those who don't have acne to sympathize with those who do. And in this case, I cannot agree with Walt, or the rest of you.

PS: Must the muckraking stoop to attacks on grammar levels and lingual proficiency?



Ok TY. Please give Geena your advice.

Posted by Pete R on June 08, 1999 at 16:44:58:

In Reply to: Re: acne posted by TY on June 08, 1999 at 15:18:30:

Hello TY. Please put up or shut up. You said:
"I doubt that his advice has really ever helped ANYBODY on acne...
I give better advice than he does!"

Please then, give Geena advice on acne. I'm sure if its good it can be archived.

You also doubt that his advice has ever helped anybody, please read the post by dani, Acne Sucess Story just above these posts.

Please read all posts on acne, accutane, etc. There are so many questions about the same topic that you can see why Dr. Stoll's response is sometimes brief. But if you don't think that any of your problems are related to stress, diet and exercise, then no one on this site can help you. You can take accutane and antibiotics but they really don't cure the problem. If you want temporary relief (which isn't even guaranteed)it really is much easier to just take a pill. But you WON'T get that advice here.

Dr. Stoll's wellness program really works; its just not easy to do at first. It will, however, give you tremendous long-term benefits, not just a clear face. If you think you know better than there is nothing more we can say to you.

PS: So if you do not like the advice that Dr. Stoll gives regarding acne but you still follow this web site...? Maybe you DO have some interest after all.



Oh please....

Posted by Michele on June 08, 1999 at 20:34:09:

In Reply to: acne posted by Geena on June 08, 1999 at 00:30:11:

Geena, I quote--"Sure all this meditation is fine and dandy and it will bring down your stress level but lets face it people like me that have had years of experience know better than you Walt." Oh really? Walt's older than you I'm sure, and he has this thing called a degree. Therefore, I would call HIM more experienced and more in the know.
Again, I quote--"That women have a whole body of hormones that effect us in many different ways." Yes. They do AFFECT us in many different ways. Walt knows this. And if you'd read what he wrote with an open mind instead of attacking things you don't understand, you'd realize that these hormones are controlled by excess stress in the hypothalamus. Relieve the stress, relieve the hormonal imbalance--make sense?

And one more thing. You are not the only woman, the only PERSON, in the world with acne. I'm sure you realize this but your post sounds so self-absorbed I thought I'd remind you. I had terrible acne into my late twenties. I had TERRIBLE periods that would land me in the emergency room several times a year. I had terrible allergies. I went on the pill. I took anti-inflammatories and painkillers. I took this pill and that pill. I used this cream and that cream. When I finally looked for the CAUSES of these problems and didn't just try to patch everything up and repair everything all the time, I got better. And I got better by following Dr. Stoll's advice.

You shouldn't knock something until you try it. You're speaking out of ignorance, and THAT my dear, makes YOU "not very smart." I don't mean to sound rude or angry, but I am responding to your post in the same tone as which it was written. If you stop being so closed-minded, the world may open up to you. You can choose to listen to Dr. Stoll or not, but in any case, please don't waste this space complaining. You're ruining it for those of us who are here to learn.

Oh, and one more thing, (this is what gets me the most)---HOW can you POSSIBLY call Dr. Stoll rude, self-centered and greedy when he devotes SIX HOURS A DAY to this bulletin board for FREE?!!!!! I bet you wouldn't do that. His book is an informative tool. If you don't want to buy it, don't. You can still learn everything you need just by reading the archives here. However, the book puts everything in perspective. If money was his primary motivation, do you really think he'd be typing advice on the net all day for free, or working at a job that paid him? Think about it.



Re: this is not a post about acne (Clarification?)

Posted by Walt Stoll on June 09, 1999 at 13:46:01:

In Reply to: this is not a post about acne posted by Pete R on June 08, 1999 at 12:46:54:

Thanks, Pete.

I need to clarify some of your points, though.

I make no money from my books. If I count my time as nothing I break even. I NEVER recommend my book unless that is the quickest & easiest thing for that person to do to get the information I believe s/he needs.

As I am sure you know, I never deliberately try to be "cryptic" or "vague". I always give the person the tools they need to find out what they want to know (whether they know what they need or not). My biggest concern, this past 2 weeks, has been that I will not be able to keep up with the demand. If I couldn't refer the person to the information already in the archives, I would have had to give up a year ago.

Sometimes I DO intend to be insulting & rude. I always try to do what moves the person off their "dead center" into action. I am not going to go along with their misconceptions just because they seem to feel comfortable with them. If making them angry with me is what I think will do them the most good, I do not hesitate to do that.

I really DO appreciate the help & support you give this BB. Without people like you, both Bill's & my time would be less well spent.

I would appreciate your letting me know, right here on this BB, when I am being "cryptic" &/or "vague" without giving the person the tools to learn what they need to know. We all can improve if we keep an open mind. I would like to be included in that group.

Namase`

Walt



Re: Oh please....

Posted by Walt Stoll on June 09, 1999 at 13:49:11:

In Reply to: Oh please.... posted by Michele on June 08, 1999 at 20:34:09:

Thanks, Michele!

I needed that!

Namaste`

Walt



Re: connection between anger and acne

Posted by
Kyra on June 09, 1999 at 14:12:28:

In Reply to: acne posted by Geena on June 08, 1999 at 00:30:11:


Think about it Geena.



Re: Yeah, Pete :)! (nmi)

Posted by
Kyra on June 09, 1999 at 14:15:21:

In Reply to: Ok TY. Please give Geena your advice. posted by Pete R on June 08, 1999 at 16:44:58:


nmi



Re: acne

Posted by Tina on June 10, 1999 at 11:36:20:

In Reply to: acne posted by Geena on June 08, 1999 at 00:30:11:

Geena, I would be happy to send you one of my copies of Dr. Stoll's books. I have only tried one suggestion so far and already a very noticeable improvement in my health. Don't give up so easily on this, I think it will help you.



here's to you, Pete

Posted by
TY on June 10, 1999 at 15:35:57:

In Reply to: Ok TY. Please give Geena your advice. posted by Pete R on June 08, 1999 at 16:44:58:

Fortunately, I know better than to use verbal abuse. Perhaps it's what they call "respect"? I merely stated that I don't like Stoll's advice, and invited not so much as a rebuttal. No need to be sarcastic either.
Believe it or not, I visit this BB only to offer advice to other Acne sufferers. Stoll offers virtually no advice to these people... and I have read the database; to me it is junk, void of use.
If you really think that acne is only a problem of "stress, diet and exercise", then I ask: why are there so many athletes with bad skin? (certainly you neglected to mention hormonal and other internal factors)



Re: Still waiting, TY

Posted by waiting on June 10, 1999 at 19:18:27:

In Reply to: here's to you, Pete posted by TY on June 10, 1999 at 15:35:57:


OK, TY,

So you're right about everything in the universe. So where's your advice to Geena? Could you download your acne database rather than your anger? Substantive information is valued on this BB. Anger is not.



and here's to YOU, TY...

Posted by
trish on June 11, 1999 at 00:15:52:

In Reply to: here's to you, Pete posted by TY on June 10, 1999 at 15:35:57:

You DID ask why we are all so bent on supporting Walt, TY. That at least invited an answer, which Pete provided. I know Pete, and he is living proof that Walt's "program" works. So are many others here.

So, where's YOUR advice? I don't ask sarcastically or to "challenge" - we welcome new ideas and are willing to explore any reasonable avenues to wellness here, and I know many of us would genuinely love to hear your success story. Geena certainly seems to need some help with her acne - resolving that may get her started on the way she needs to go.

So, help us all if you can.

trish



No TY, you were disrespectful. Now please tell us what you think

Posted by Pete R on June 11, 1999 at 15:16:05:

In Reply to: here's to you, Pete posted by TY on June 10, 1999 at 15:35:57:

Hello TY.
I'm not trying to abuse you or 'diss you in any way as you implied. It was 'your' disrespectful language that started it. You didn't merely say, "I disagree with Dr. Stoll and his approach to acne". You said that his advice is USELESS, and you said it in a snotty way. By the way, a person who has the brains to complete medical school and who has been working at his profession 30 or more years has attained a position of respect in our society. Please consider this advice in your future dealings with people.

Now, I am not going to let you off the hook here. You said that you have experience with acne and much more useful information than Dr. Stoll. And that is why you are here on this board. So please provide some advice. You can do it in a new post so more people will see it.

Regards. Pete Reinhard



Re: here's to you, Pete

Posted by Bill on June 13, 1999 at 11:50:14:

In Reply to: here's to you, Pete posted by TY on June 10, 1999 at 15:35:57:

and I have read the database; to me it is junk, void of use

I would like to add my 2 cents here. I archive roughly half to three quarters of the posts made to this BB. The posts are made by human beings, some in pain, some looking for a soapbox, some just sharing what's up for them in that moment.

There is very little medical/clinical advice in the ACNE archives, because it is really an extremely simple topic. Dr Stoll's approach to acne is essentially this:

all acne is caused by hormonal imbalance. An effective way to balance hormones is to practice an effective skilled relaxation technique 20 minutes twice a day. And good news, the skilled relaxation will have lifelong positive health benefits for you.

The acne archives mostly are people with acne talking about their experiences, what they tried, and what they are afraid of. I'm not certain why dad tells people to "spend a few hours there". I think what he really is struggling to effectively do is get acne sufferers to consider that the solution to their problems is not necessarily a pill or medication, but requires a change in lifestyle - a much MUCH more difficult cure.

Finally, I believe that my dad has nothing against accutane and other medication for acne. I love seeing accutane success stories and I archive all of them. What we are MORE interested in is addressing the causes rather than the symptoms. Chronic acne can be a harbinger of other more serious painful conditions. If acne is caused by chronic stress and we eliminate the acne without eliminating the stress, we are ignoring the body's warning. The warning may get louder and louder until the stress is addressed; that is, the next warning may be chronic back problems or digestive problems or one of a hundred other things...

Bill



Re: here's to you, Pete (Archives. What are they for?)

Posted by Dad on June 14, 1999 at 15:09:40:

In Reply to: Re: here's to you, Pete posted by Bill on June 13, 1999 at 11:50:14:

Thanks, Bill.

Can you archive this note & highlight your summary? Maybe put it at the top of the list?

The main reason I tell so many people to go to the archives is that I am assuming that I have given this same information to many people & those would be archived. If this is not true of the many things I use the archives for (to save me doing it AGAIN) I guess I need to be enlightened so I will do an entry note for each.

Love, Dad



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