Acne and Accutane archives

always another worry

Posted by Stacy on October 17, 1998 at 17:37:01:

Dear Dr. my son is 18 years old between 160 and 165 pounds and taking 80mg(40 twice a day) of accutane. He had moderate, non-cystic acne(some whiteheads, black heads red bumps) and by the end of second week of treatment is face is clear, oilyness gone, and the only severe areas of dryness on chin and around mouth. He did have a small breakout on his chest second week. Ofcourse with such great improvement in such a short time he is already begining to wonder why he needs to have a 20 week treatment and what to expect as treatment continues. He has tried some moisturizer on the chin area but says it makes itchiness worse in those areas. Any suggestions for something to moisturize that won't irritate and do what do you think about the 20 week course with so much improvement so early on.


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Re: always another worry

Posted by Stacy on October 17, 1998 at 17:39:48:

In Reply to: always another worry posted by Stacy on October 17, 1998 at 17:37:01:


Although his acne was not cystic it was leaving small scars



Re: always another worry

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 18, 1998 at 09:25:40:

In Reply to: always another worry posted by Stacy on October 17, 1998 at 17:37:01:

Hi, Stacy.

Neither YOU nor I can resolve this for him. HE is the one who has to be willing to learn what works and be disciplined enough to actually DO it. We can open doors but we cannot make him drink.

The only thing I can assure you is that persistant acne is NOT an accutane deficiency and his problem will almost certainly return if accutane is the only thing he does. Have either of you read the package insert????

IF he is disciplined enough to be ready to learn what WILL resolve this permanently, have him go to the archives at
archives and read everything he can find about acne, accutane and accutane side-effects (the latter since many notes he needs were posted there). This will take him several hours. If he is not willing to even do this much effort, forget about him ever actually doing it since doing would be MUCH more effort than learning.

Sorry I cannot be more help with your questions but he is already walking down the wrong path.

If he has more questions, after reading all this information (including references) I would be happy to answer them right here on the BB.

Walt



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Re: always another worry

Posted by Stacy on October 18, 1998 at 16:29:14:

In Reply to: Re: always another worry posted by Walt Stoll on October 18, 1998 at 09:25:40:

Dear Doc, I have watched my son over the last years as he has gone to 6a.m basketball practices, morining after morning, always there early, stay after school to lift weights to become stronger, to become a better player, come home do his homework, and every morning and evening be extremely conscienense(sp) about the way he washes, using the proper soaps, creams, pills, 2 and 3 times a day, whatever the derm. prescribed. In addition he tried to eat healthy foods for athletic reasons as well as trying desperately to clear his face. Maybe he was unknowingly on th wrong path, but he was certainly willing to put the time in to do whatever he beleived(with Drs. advice) it took to clear his complexion. So I can't help but be a bit bothered by your comments. Just because someone may be on the wrong path as you see it, doesn't mean they aren't trying. He is impatient now because after literally years of trying everything he was told, frustration sets in.


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Re: always another worry

Posted by Stacy on October 18, 1998 at 16:34:46:

In Reply to: Re: always another worry posted by Stacy on October 18, 1998 at 16:29:14:

We did not take the decision to take accutane lightly, it came with alot of time and research, and that how it is for many who chose this path. My son will continue to try and live a healthy life after accutane treatment is completed, right now the drug is clearing his complexion and giving him reason to continue with a full life and not one of hiding out.



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Re: always another worry

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 19, 1998 at 12:14:06:

In Reply to: Re: always another worry posted by Stacy on October 18, 1998 at 16:29:14:

Dear Stacy,

Sounds like you have an unusual son. More power to him (and you). The only reason I even mentioned it is that it is rare when a teenager will do what is needed to resolve acne. Unless you understand that, you may cause a lot of tension trying to get him to do it. That is the last thing you should do. Why do you think I took the time to type all that stuff?

Anyhow, HE is the one who has to go to the archives and read what is there, not you. If he has further questions, I will be happy to respond to them on this BB.

Walt




Re: always another worry

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 19, 1998 at 12:21:35:

In Reply to: Re: always another worry posted by Stacy on October 18, 1998 at 16:34:46:

Dear Stacy,

THIS note seems to say that you know what a "healthy life" is. If you do, you are far ahead of nearly all the world wide experts I know of.

In fact, a "healthy life" is already known to vary from individual to individual. It is based, at least in part, on the genetic potential of every gene in his gene pool.

This is FAR too complex for anyone to yet individualize. So far, there are only 3 things known to be essential to EVERYONE wanting to be "healthy". They are: the regular practice of skilled relaxation (I notice you have not mentioned that he has ever done that), regular exercise and a whole foods diet. Even the AMA is now saying that an individualized micronutrient supplementation is necessary for optimum health (the opposite of what they have insisted upon for the past 100 years).

I would appreciate your sharing your knowledge about this with the rest of us, We can all learn from each other. 100 years from now everyone will look back at this time as the dark ages of health.

Walt



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Re: always another worry

Posted by Stacy on October 19, 1998 at 23:23:44:

In Reply to: Re: always another worry posted by Walt Stoll on October 19, 1998 at 12:21:35:

No, I guess what I was trying to say is that I and I have noticed others that are somewhat offended by you repeatedly commenting that teens are not willing to put in the effort it takes. I'm sure there are those who aren't, but I know many who are desperate to find the answer to their acne problem and willing to do whatever it takes, unfortunately I guess they all haven't been lucky enough to find your website yet and read your book.


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Re: always another worry

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 20, 1998 at 11:42:47:

In Reply to: Re: always another worry posted by Stacy on October 19, 1998 at 23:23:44:

Thanks, Stacy.

I go by the assumption that, by the time people start looking for solutions on the internet that they are tired with "beating around the bush". Personally I am old enough that I am not wiling to waste MY time doing so either.

SO, I tell it as I see it. One of the things I am 100 % sure of is that more than 99% of teenagers will not do the wellness needed to resolve their acne----even while insisting that "they will do anything to get rid of this problem".

Although faster results CAN accrue by individualizing any wellness program to any individual person, that individualization costs a lot of money & one would have to find a competent physician to run the tests (there are probably less than 100 of them in the country) and the AMA makes it VERY hard to find them.

I have yet to see ANY person with persistant acne (regardless of age) that did not clear completely, within 6-12 months just by doing "generic" wellness: skilled relaxation, exercise & whole foods diet. This takes NO tests and one can always go to the REAL expert, after 6 months of a wellness program, for testing if they are not happy with the results. I have yet to find that person.

People that get upset by my statements about teenagers not being willing to do this are mainly upset because the truth hit too close to home. This is a universal human quality. The reason I feel the need to share this truth is that almost always it is the parent that is trying to help their child solve the problem AND THEY ARE POWERLESS TO DO SO. It has to be the person with the problem and someone else not understanding the difficulty will only get in the way by urging.

Good luck! Walt



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Re: always another worry

Posted by Robin Pollan on October 20, 1998 at 20:23:46:

In Reply to: always another worry posted by Stacy on October 17, 1998 at 17:37:01:

Stacy,

I feel for your son, I too battled acne through high school and college. I took every antibiotic under the sun (which has now added to my other health problems) and finally we gave in and went to Accutane, I beleive that I was on the same dose. However, my skin was SO oily that the Accutane did not even dry it out (I never had any flaky patches). I was on it for 20 weeks also I believe. It was wonderful at first and I did not have a problem until about 3 years later and my acne came back just as bad.

My reason for this post is to let you know that Dr. Stoll is being realistic. I was also a very disciplined child, I was very careful of what I ate, I was in the drill team and we were very active, but I was not willing then to do what I am willing to do now and it has taken me 3 ulcers, 2 years of continuous bladder infections, 3 years of acid reflux, IBS and now Candida to come to this place in my life when acne now is the least of my problems. It is good that you have the information that Dr. Stoll has been so kind to impart on us to help him along the way, he is already WAY ahead of where I was at 18.

I truly wish you and your son the best.

Robin




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Re: always another worry

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 21, 1998 at 12:42:55:

In Reply to: Re: always another worry posted by Robin Pollan on October 20, 1998 at 20:23:46:

Thanks, Robin.

People need to hear from people like you who have been "through it". Usually that kind of information does more good than anything I can say. After all, I am one of the "enemy"----just another MD.

Namaste` Walt




Where are the succes stories posted re: acne

Posted by Stacy on October 21, 1998 at 18:33:06:

In Reply to: Re: always another worry posted by Walt Stoll on October 20, 1998 at 11:42:47:


Yes ofcourse the parent is trying to help their child with the problem, wouldn't be much of a parent if they didn't and true the child must be willing, but have there really been so few suffering from acne that have been cured by your plan that the word hasn't gotten around? A cure for something like this would be touted as quite the medical accomplishment and I'd think they'd been beating down your door. Where are the success stories posted on this site about acne?


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Re: Where are the succes stories posted re: acne

Posted by PeggyH on October 22, 1998 at 02:41:42:

In Reply to: Where are the succes stories posted re: acne posted by Stacy on October 21, 1998 at 18:33:06:

Stacy,

Go to the string right above this one and read posts "We all get where we choose to go.." and "Let 'em roll their eyes all they want." Then, go further up on the board and read the string about Rosacea.

"They" would be beating down Dr. Stoll's door if he had a pill that could be sold.




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That's a great question...

Posted by trish on October 22, 1998 at 11:23:17:

In Reply to: Where are the succes stories posted re: acne posted by Stacy on October 21, 1998 at 18:33:06:

And I'm not sure I know the answer. But I can tell you this - Walt states in his note to you that 99% of teenagers won't do what is necessary to resolve their acne. There's a pretty darn huge percentage of ADULTS that won't do what's necessary to resolve THEIR problems either.

Why aren't people beating down his door? Because, although what Walt teaches are fairly simple concepts, they're REALLY HARD TO DO! For anyone, not just teenagers. Have you read all there is to read here? Have you tried to do skilled relaxation? Twice a day? Have you pictured what it would be like to go on an elimination diet and then follow a completely strict whole foods diet for 6 to 12 months?

I've pictured it. It's gonna be REALLY HARD!!!! I am trying to prepare myself for the diet part of this beginning in 1999. I just don't have the energy available right now to give it a real go...And I'm pretty dedicated to getting well. I feel like I'm just scratching the surface of the skilled relaxation - that's hard to do, too.

Then, of course, there's the profit motive. And the fact that people simply don't like to work at stuff anymore. They want a pill, like Pam said. I know otherwise intelligent people who would rather take a chance at damaging their organs with medication than try a disciplined approach to their health. Others just refuse to believe, having been completely brainwashed by the establishment.

That's why I say that those of us who are here really are a special group of people.

I hope this helps you, Stacy, and I hope I haven't sounded harsh or uncaring - that's not my intent.

Good luck!
trish




Follow Ups:


OOPS! Re: pill - I meant to say PeggyH, not Pam! NMI

Posted by trish on October 22, 1998 at 11:26:30:

In Reply to: That's a great question... posted by trish on October 22, 1998 at 11:23:17:

Sorry, Peggy!




Re: Where are the succes stories posted re: acne

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 22, 1998 at 12:11:23:

In Reply to: Where are the succes stories posted re: acne posted by Stacy on October 21, 1998 at 18:33:06:

Dear Stacy,

Your best bet would be to put a note on the BB titled something like "Acne Wellness Testimonials?". There are two I know of on the BB 10/21/98. I just read them.

It is not MY job to convince anyone. I have practiced for more than 30 years (half conventionally and half practicing complementary medicine) and I KNOW which way works the best.

This is not "my plan" but what successful wellness practitioners all over the planet figured out. I have just put their discoveries to work.

When I was still in practice, people WERE just "beating down my doors". However, that was VERY threatening to the conventional medicine monopoly and so they harassed me out of practice. If you are interested in that, go to the home page & read about it.

The solution to this problem IS on this BB. Isn't it enough that my son and I have created this resource and that I donate an average of 6 hours a day to it while he donates nearly that much as well? What can either of us possibly gain by anyone following this wisdom? Certainly not money or prestige. We gain the satisfaction of helping our fellow man. Those who are not ready to be helped will just have to suffer a little longer.

Good luck to your son. Walt




Re: That's a great question...

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 25, 1998 at 09:23:38:

In Reply to: That's a great question... posted by trish on October 22, 1998 at 11:23:17:

Thanks, trish!

This is EXACTLY the kind of thing that needs to be said!

Wellness is not for everyone. Only those who REALLY are tired of being sick!

Namaste` Walt






Re: Where are the succes stories posted re: acne

Posted by SW on October 25, 1998 at 13:27:51:

In Reply to: Re: Where are the succes stories posted re: acne posted by PeggyH on October 22, 1998 at 02:41:42:


Well I don't completely agree. In most cases yes, people who go to regular medical Dr.s and who believe they are doing the right thing, are going to try the typical medial remedies. Certainly it is easier to take a pill, and when it is was what your Dr. recommends you would be much more likely to do it then try Dr. Stoll's methods which you probably have never heard of. It is normally when a person has tried all the conventional methods unsuccessfully that they begin looking for the alternatives and at that point are ususally desperate enough to try anything, and unfortunately end of following alot of fool hearty dangerous advice because there is such a great deal of info. out there. So while there are certainly those who have lung cancer and continue to smoke, there is a large group of people out there willing to try just about anything, give us more credit, instead of believing you are the "special few"(re: Trishs' post)


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Re: Where are the succes stories posted re: acne

Posted by Robin Pollan on October 25, 1998 at 19:39:08:

In Reply to: Re: Where are the succes stories posted re: acne posted by SW on October 25, 1998 at 13:27:51:

I don't think that Trish was talking about people who are at the point in their life that they are even seeking out alternatives. I got to that point and I believe that I have found the answer, here on this site. However, I come across many people in my life who are suffering as much or more than me that refuse to listen to what I say because they believe that they cannot live without their pizza and soft drinks. They roll their eyes at me especially when I bring up skilled relaxation. All of these things are basically free and they still refuse to even consider them, but they will run to the pharmacy and pay for a pill because taking a pill takes no effort on their part and is much easier than making these changes in their life. These are the people that I personally believe that Trish was reffering to.

Robin



Re: Where are the succes stories posted re: acne

Posted by PeggyH on October 26, 1998 at 03:37:15:

In Reply to: Re: Where are the succes stories posted re: acne posted by SW on October 25, 1998 at 13:27:51:

SW,

I was referencing Trish's post because of the success she has had since implementing the techniques discussed on this board and that is what "Stacy" was asking for.

I have read your post three times and am still not sure what it is you're disagreeing with. Are you disagreeing that most people are not willing to do what Walt suggests to be well? .. and that it is a special few that once they find this board will stay and try it? If so, I would have to disagree with you. I don't think many people would be willing to do this stuff. Not at all. This requires way too much action on the part of the individual. You can't just "take something." This stuff comes from inside yourself. How many people do you know who would meditate 2x a day, exercise 3x a week, and eliminate absolutely ALL refined products from their diet? People have such an emotional relationship with food which makes it such a hot topic and most refuse to deny themselves anything, now tell them to meditate too! Well, that wouldn't make any sense whatsoever (to most).

These things are hard to do, yet so basic that it's unbelievable that the answer could have been this simple all along. If this is not what you were disagreeing with, well, disregard.

Peggy






Credit where credit is due...

Posted by trish on October 26, 1998 at 12:58:49:

In Reply to: Re: Where are the succes stories posted re: acne posted by SW on October 25, 1998 at 13:27:51:

I am not sure what you're disagreeing with, but I stand by my comments. I think we ARE special, here, SW. The great news is, our group is open to anyone who wants to join it. In fact, we'd love to have more and more people joining us! I'm certainly not saying that it's a private club!

The thing that makes it so special is just what you said...
"It is normally when a person has tried all the
conventional methods unsuccessfully that they begin looking for the alternatives and at that point are ususally desperate enough to try anything,
and unfortunately end of following alot of fool hearty dangerous advice because there is such a great deal of info."

There's another thread(s) around here about people doing LAST what would help them the most. Why? Because it's hard to do.. it takes a lot of work, reading, commitment and taking responsibility for yourself. And the godawful discipline it takes makes me tired just thinking about it :-).

People follow fool hardy, dangerous advice because it's easier than learning. They still want the easy way out. Those of us who read everything we can get our hands on and work hard to learn about our own bodies and problems before handing our health over to another are few. And most of us have put up with a lot of flack for what we're doing. I'm not saying we're BETTER. But we are different. We have come farther along because of our own commitment to our health and our selves. It wasn't my intent to turn it into a "them" and "us" thing, SW... you can join "us" anytime you want - we love company!!!

be well,
trish



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Re: Credit where credit is due...

Posted by SW on October 26, 1998 at 18:44:49:

In Reply to: Credit where credit is due... posted by trish on October 26, 1998 at 12:58:49:


Trish, I guess I agree that some people may do whats best last because its easiest, but lets look at reality. The "majority" of us are raised to believe that our medical Drs. that our parents take us to when we are young and become ill are the right people to see. Most times, for most of us they have been. They've helped us through our infections with antibiotics, they've set our broken arms and legs so they healed properly, they stictched up our cuts, and we've seen them do the same with most all our family and friends, so you can imagine why it is so hard to go to "alternative" medicine so to speak. It is not because it is always "easier" to take the other path first, for most of us the path of traditional medicine has WORKED for us all our lives. Why is it so difficult for you to come from this place of understanding instead of being so quick to tell people they are simply unwilling to do what it takes? Maybe I shouldn't care, but this attitude is what continues to irriatate people with Dr. Stoll. He may have alot of good to offer,
I just wish he could find a way that wasn't so insulting for using traditional methods in the past.


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Re: Credit where credit is due...

Posted by trish on October 27, 1998 at 10:06:39:

In Reply to: Re: Credit where credit is due... posted by SW on October 26, 1998 at 18:44:49:

Hi SW,

I'm not sure what you're looking for from me. You ask why it's difficult for me to come from a place of understanding, yet it is you who doesn't seem to understand. I HAVE come from that place. I was raised along with the majority you speak of, here in the US. My parents were not herbologists! I took the antibiotics and regular HMO doctors saved my hand and repaired it so I can still use it. I am grateful for their knowledge and their help. They also didn't bother to tell me that three years later, I'd still be suffering from a raving candida infection. In fact when I asked them, they said if I got a colon infection, they'd "give me something for it." Then later they didn't believe what I was telling them. But that's my problem now, and lucky for me, because of Dr. Stoll, and my own hard work, I know how to take care of it. I'm not doing too well right now, either because it's a hard road.

I'm not trying to tell anyone that they're not willing to do what it takes. And neither I nor Dr. Stoll is advocating throwing out all of our traditional medical knowledge.

I agree that for some it's harder than others to accept a non traditional path in ANY aspect of their lives. But, what would you have Dr. Stoll do? The only time I've seen him get the least bit frustrated is with people who come here to cry on someone's shoulder or argue with him. I don't blame him. Why would you go to an expert on a subject and then argue about his suggestions without trying them? People on accutane come here looking for support in their decision.

Dr. Stoll calls things as he sees them. Those of us who "hang around" here like it that way. If others are so easily "insulted" then perhaps this just isn't the place for them. They can find someone else to agree with them until they're ready to find the real answers. That's when Dr. Stoll can help them.

Looks like we won't see eye to eye on everyting. If you are lookng for help with your health, SW, I believe this is the right place to be, but as you said, it's not for everyone.

Be well,
trish


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Re: Credit where credit is due...

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 27, 1998 at 11:44:41:

In Reply to: Re: Credit where credit is due... posted by SW on October 26, 1998 at 18:44:49:

Hi, SW.

As long as you call "conventional medicine" "traditional medicine" You have a long way to go to understand what you are talking about.

I really couldn't care less if that makes you angry with me (or insulted, or whatever). I am too old to worry about stuff like that. If you want to beat around the bush, go to your "conventional" doc. We are trained to be masters of that approach!

Sorry for you. You are definitely not ready for this BB.

Walt





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Re: Credit where credit is due...

Posted by SW on October 29, 1998 at 16:14:05:

In Reply to: Re: Credit where credit is due... posted by trish on October 27, 1998 at 10:06:39:


I AM NOT ARGUING WITH DR. STOLL'S SUGGESTIONS OR METHODS, ALL I'M SAYING IS HE MIGHT HELP ALOT MORE PEOPLE AND SELL ALOT MORE BOOKS IF HE COULD"COME ACROSS" AS A BIT MORE COMPASSIONATE. APPARENTLY THIS IS NOT IMPORTANT TO HIM AS HE HAS SAID HE IS TOO OLD TO WORRY ABOUT IT ANYMORE.


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Re: Credit where credit is due...

Posted by SW on October 29, 1998 at 16:21:52:

In Reply to: Re: Credit where credit is due... posted by Walt Stoll on October 27, 1998 at 11:44:41:


If you truly care about getting your message out, you'll consider changing your approach to people somewhat. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought compassion, understanding,
and "bedside manner"so to speak were also an important part of medicine, traditonal, conventional, alternative, what-ever. Good luck to you.


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Re: Credit where credit is due...

Posted by Sara on October 29, 1998 at 18:18:39:

In Reply to: Re: Credit where credit is due... posted by SW on October 29, 1998 at 16:21:52:

SW,

Whatever you may think of Dr. Stoll's approach, he is getting his message out, but you have to be ready to take some responsibility for your own wellness. The fact that he is making you so angry probably means that he hit a nerve somewhere, and you either can't or won't see it. He doesn't get paid for the medical advice he offers here, so I think it's pretty arrogant to be so critical of him. His approach to wellness obviously is of interest to you, otherwise you would have just left the BB the first time he "offended" you. There are many of us here that would strongly disagree with your assessment of Dr. Stoll; too many of us have benefitted greatly from his advise.

Sara


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No need to yell...perhaps a bit of skilled relaxation is in order...

Posted by trish on October 29, 1998 at 18:27:40:

In Reply to: Re: Credit where credit is due... posted by SW on October 29, 1998 at 16:14:05:

sheesh, SW. You need to lighten up a bit... You are not very clear in your communications, so perhaps I misunderstood your post, and you definitely misunderstood mine.

Be well!
trish


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Re: Credit where credit is due...

Posted by SW on October 29, 1998 at 20:15:29:

In Reply to: Re: Credit where credit is due... posted by Sara on October 29, 1998 at 18:18:39:


Your absolutely right Sara, his approach to wellness is of interest to me, that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion as to his way of conveying some of his ideas. My feeling is, that while Dr. Stoll may have alot of good to offer it is ashame he insults people(and he does) when the truth is, as I'm sure he'd agree, that each individual situation is different, as is each human being, and "generalizing" by saying that people are not willing to do what is necessary, especially when one has been suffering and has only found his site out of a WILLINGNESS to try just about anything, is hurtful and insultilng, but as Dr. Stoll will tell you he doesn't care if he is insulting or not, he is too old to worry about this anymore.



Re: No need to yell...perhaps a bit of skilled relaxation is in order...

Posted by SW on October 29, 1998 at 20:20:56:

In Reply to: No need to yell...perhaps a bit of skilled relaxation is in order... posted by trish on October 29, 1998 at 18:27:40:

Hey Trish, I am interested in learning skilled relaxtion, maybe you can give some tips !


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Re: No need to yell...perhaps a bit of skilled relaxation is in order...

Posted by VickiR on October 30, 1998 at 08:25:44:

In Reply to: Re: No need to yell...perhaps a bit of skilled relaxation is in order... posted by SW on October 29, 1998 at 20:20:56:

Dear SW,
If you're old enough, you remember the expression, "Different strokes for different folks." That certainly applies in the case of relaxation. It doesn't necessarily take anything fancy. I simply recorded myself reading an autogenic sequence. I turn it on, lie back in my recliner, close my eyes, and I'm off to alpha-land (even theta-land when I'm lucky). After less than 2 months, I'm so conditioned that I can just lie back in the recliner, take that first deep breath, and immediately take off. Don't even have to use the recording! I do still use it, primarily as a timing device. The relaxation workbook that Walt recommends describes many methods of relaxing. Check it out--you'll probably find one there that appeals to you.
Good luck--
VickiR




Re: Credit where credit is due...

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 30, 1998 at 12:58:38:

In Reply to: Re: Credit where credit is due... posted by SW on October 29, 1998 at 16:21:52:

SW,

Can you imagine any reason why I would donate an average of 6 hours a day to this site----other than I want to help people?

I have had more than 30 years of practice finding out what works the best. What is YOUR experience?

For those who are turned off, there are dozens who are stirred to action.

Perhaps, if YOU are one of those turned off, you would do better to go where they will coddle you until you have had enough. We will still be here helping people, that no one else can help, when you are ready to do something different.

I really appreciate your caring so much about "helping people" that you would go to the bother of doing all that you have here on this bb.

However, frankly, you don't know of which you speak.

Walt



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SURE!

Posted by trish on October 30, 1998 at 14:39:44:

In Reply to: Re: No need to yell...perhaps a bit of skilled relaxation is in order... posted by SW on October 29, 1998 at 20:20:56:

But, like Vicki says, it's different for everyone. I have been using CDs from Brain Sync and the Relaxation Company to help me block things out. I just try to make my mind blank and concentrate on relaxing my muscles = hands and arms, legs and feet, then my back, neck, etc. Once I'm relaxed, I try to relax even MORE. (I'm very tense!) It's wierd, SW; it's easy but yet it's very hard to do. You get this great tingly feeling in your arms and legs - the legs were much harder to relax for me, and sometimes it feels like I'm spinning or moving somehow.

I've been doing this since june or july - and I've reached a hard time lately. I was doing better before. Lately, I've fallen asleep - a big no-no, or just can't seem to "get into the groove." I think Dr. Stoll called it when he said I was trying too hard. I tend to try to control it, and you just can't.

I have noticed little changes, I think I'm nicer (let people in when I'm driving) and more calm. My sleeping habits are messed up,though... I'm not tired at night, but yet, I'm dead in the morning. I hear this is a phase. I try to do it 2x each day, but sometimes, I just can't!

Hope this helps. If you have any specific questions, just ask...you might consider posting a new message - there are many "expert" relaxers here - It's where the BEST of them hang out!!! :-)

take care
trish



To Dr. Stoll re credit where its due

Posted by SW on November 01, 1998 at 13:45:20:

In Reply to: Re: Credit where credit is due... posted by Walt Stoll on October 30, 1998 at 12:58:38:


I, do care about helping people, very much and I do whatever possible to help the children I work with everyday. You don't have to be a Dr. or have medical expertise to help people, there are many ways. I am not looking for coddling, but if someone comes my way looking for help I guarantee I will do my best to help without insulting them because they'd gone to someone else first, even if it was the wrong person. I don't know you, so I don't know why you spend as much time doing what you do, I imagine it is because you want to help, as well as make a living. I saw your response to someone who asked about smoking pot and taking accutane, thats what I'm talking about. You suggested he should look thru your sight to find another way but you didn't insult him by telling him he was probably not willing to do what it takes. Thanks, and Ilook forward to your responses even though I obviously annoy you. I guess we will probably just never see eye to eye on this.


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Re: To Dr. Stoll re credit where its due

Posted by Walt Stoll on November 02, 1998 at 09:49:45:

In Reply to: To Dr. Stoll re credit where its due posted by SW on November 01, 1998 at 13:45:20:

Dear SW,

"Make a living"? how do you propose I am doing that with this donated time? My income has been essentially zero for the past 5 years since I left practice & went to public education. I spend more than 6 hours a day, more than 350 days a year (more than 2000 hours) for an income of less than $1000 a year. How could I possibly be doing this to "make a living"?

It is alright for us to agree to disagree. My posirtion is that I have been through what you think is the way to go and found that there are better ways. Each to his/her own.

Walt



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Re: To Dr. Stoll re credit where its due

Posted by SW on November 04, 1998 at 14:44:02:

In Reply to: Re: To Dr. Stoll re credit where its due posted by Walt Stoll on November 02, 1998 at 09:49:45:

and you may be absolutely right. I'm glad there is someone out there trying to get these ideas across, the only thing I was ever really trying to say is that it would be ashame toloose people to methods that could really help them by insulting them and having them turn away.


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Re: To Dr. Stoll re credit where its due

Posted by Walt Stoll on November 05, 1998 at 10:42:39:

In Reply to: Re: To Dr. Stoll re credit where its due posted by SW on November 04, 1998 at 14:44:02:

Dear SW,

It IS a shame! However, if there is anything I have learned with all this is that there is no way that anyone can please everyone all the time.

I am choosing to help the most people I can with the time I have to donate. Those who let personal feelings get in the way of the solutions to their problems likely wouldn't want to do the work it would take anyhow. I know I am reaching the most people likely to actually do the work by not "beating around the bush".

Thanks for your interest. Walt



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Re: To Dr. Stoll re credit where its due

Posted by SW on November 05, 1998 at 21:42:54:

In Reply to: Re: To Dr. Stoll re credit where its due posted by Walt Stoll on November 05, 1998 at 10:42:39:

No one can please everyone all of the time, but certainly you can give helpful, straightforward advice without being insulting.Not beating around the bush and insulting people are two different things. One's personal feelings are very important and many people by time they find your site are already pretty down on themselves. Isn't feeling good about yourself important to good health? For someone who puts so much of their life into this, why on earth would would you try and insult people who come to you for help?
Not that it matters, but I guess I just can't understand it.


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Re: To Dr. Stoll re credit where its due

Posted by Walt Stoll on November 06, 1998 at 09:09:15:

In Reply to: Re: To Dr. Stoll re credit where its due posted by SW on November 05, 1998 at 21:42:54:

Dear SW.

Insults are more in the "eye of the beholder" than they are sent by the sender. You can learn that by just reading a few of the testimonials on this BB every day. Those who weren't "insulted" by the exact same approach are getting the results they deserve and those who were "insulted" are getting the same.

If you are insulted, know that it did not come from me.

Walt




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