Acne and Accutane archives

reading thru acne, accutane archives

Posted by Nat on October 17, 1998 at 18:12:17:

Dr. Stoll, as I have seen you suggest, I began reading thru these archives and the more I read the more disillusioned with you I became.To try and convince people that the only reason their acne is not responding to the usual methods most dermatolgists start out with is because they are not healthy individuals is abhorrent as far as I'm concerned. I beleive that stress does cause acne flare ups in some people, but for them to believe that exercise, relaxation, and proper diet will solve their problem when most of them are so desperate they have tried all of that and more for years, is a disgrace. Certainly we all know these things are beneficial to our health r acne, but be real, these people are truly suffering, andmany can not get better without the help of certain drugs. I heard from one boy who at the point of practically starving himself thinking that just about everything he ate was causing the acne becasue it wouldn't go away.


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Re: reading thru acne, accutane archives

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 18, 1998 at 09:41:43:

In Reply to: reading thru acne, accutane archives posted by Nat on October 17, 1998 at 18:12:17:

Dear Nat,

All your note tells me is that you are woefully lacking in knowledge about the causes for persistant acne.

Maslow looked for 10 years, at the turn of the century, for a "healthy person" and did not find one. They are much rarer today.

Health is MUCH more than the absence of "disease". I have practiced for more than 30 years. About half of them were practicing conventional medicine and the other half went beyond into dealing with causes instead of only treating symptoms. In the former, I NEVER cured a case of acne although I could temporarily show them improvements (just like my colleagues). In the latter, I never failed to resolve a case of acne IF the person would learn & DO what I suggested. I can tell you that I made a lot more money treating symptoms than I did teaching people how to be healthy.

It seems to me that results speak for themselves.

I make no money from your doing what resolves this. If you choose to keep your acne rather than learning how to think in another way, that is your choice.

Walt




Whoa there! Let's (Not) shoot the Messenger!

Posted by Jim Marconnet on October 18, 1998 at 22:04:16:

In Reply to: reading thru acne, accutane archives posted by Nat on October 17, 1998 at 18:12:17:

Dr. Walt Stoll is performing here in this web site and specifically this forum what I personally consider to be a wonderful public service. On his $$$.

Yes, he has his own personal agenda WRT the AMA. So....

Yes he sells some of his books here, Big Deal! No big $$ there!

I've seen several posts here lately that seemed to me like they were shooting the (absolutely, positively free) messenger. That is not necessary, IMHO.

If you don't like what he says, don't do it. But why complain or yell at the good doctor who is so patient and so available to us here. I cannot get into see my medical doctor any faster than I can get a much better opinion, with understandable layperson's explanation here!

Personally, I'm surprised he answers some of the posts here, especially when they border or cross the line on inflamatory.

My suggestion is to look thru whatever is available to you, information-wise, here, there, and everywhere you wish, and then act on whatever you chose, but please don't shoot the messenger.

Just my $.02.

RocketHealer Jim++


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Re: Whoa there! Let's (Not) shoot the Messenger!

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 19, 1998 at 13:01:27:

In Reply to: Whoa there! Let's (Not) shoot the Messenger! posted by Jim Marconnet on October 18, 1998 at 22:04:16:

Thanks, Jim!

I appreciate the understanding & support.

Namaste` Walt




Re: Whoa there! Let's (Not) shoot the Messenger!

Posted by Nat on October 19, 1998 at 23:37:51:

In Reply to: Whoa there! Let's (Not) shoot the Messenger! posted by Jim Marconnet on October 18, 1998 at 22:04:16:

We are all on this site looking, searching, trying to find the answers just as we have searched and read and talked to many others. because I just found the site and just now hearing some of these new(to me)ideas Dr. Stoll insults me and others by saying things like we aren't willing to do what is necessary, or gives the feeling with his answers that we deserve what we've had because we were too ignorant or
lazy to do it his way. Thats where the anger comes from. I don't see much compassion for those who have tried other methods.



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Re: Compassion

Posted by Jim Marconnet on October 20, 1998 at 09:43:08:

In Reply to: Re: Whoa there! Let's (Not) shoot the Messenger! posted by Nat on October 19, 1998 at 23:37:51:

My very first thought when I read your comment about compassion was, "If you want compassion, go join a support group. Cry on each other's shoulders all you want about how hard you TRIED, and how nothing worked!" But that answer would not be particularly compassionate in and of itself :-)

No, this site does not appear to be a self-serve compassion-storehouse. But if you want information in the subject areas covered here, this is the best place I know of. Take whatever you want. Or not. It's offered freely to all, with no strings attached. But there is an implied "Be Nice!"

BTW, coming in with both guns blazing against the propreiter may not be the best way to establish good raport with members of a group like this. But it is a good Trolling technique, and perhaps I just got Trolled in. If so, sorry gang. Usually I don't let myself get "hooked".

I can sense from Walt's postings here that he gets really tired of people not listening, not believing and/or not practicing what he has been suggesting to them individually and collectively for so many years. He is a voice crying out in the wilderness, so to speak. Now some (hopefully many) people are listening and are benefitting. He may forget that you just arrived here a few minutes ago and have not yet absorbed (much yet put into practice) the wealth of knowledge and understanding stored here over the past several years. Yes, his words do convey some frustration, but I'd call it more of an "impatience" than "frustration". If people would only do that most important thing, then they could get on with significant living and loving and more interesting questions than the same old same old.

A wild idea: Perhaps Walt simply needs some way to keep anyone from posting in his discussion area till after they have read his book. Read all you want here, but perhaps answering a question or two from the book could required to post. That would cut down his workload responding to (oftentimes repetitive) questions a Lot. But I believe that begs the question of what information and compassion he is trying to share here. He is much bigger than that.

All that said, perhaps it is time (for all of us) to do what he suggests. Or vote with your feet.

Jim


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Re: Compassion

Posted by Sara on October 20, 1998 at 10:26:50:

In Reply to: Re: Compassion posted by Jim Marconnet on October 20, 1998 at 09:43:08:

Jim,

I agree. Perhaps a notation could be made at the top of the BB page stating that it is strongly suggested that Dr. Stoll's book be read before posting. Not everyone will follow the suggestion, but it may cut down on Walt having to constantly tell people to read his book, and THEN write back if they have any questions.

Just a thought,
Sara


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Re: Compassion

Posted by trish on October 20, 1998 at 10:45:16:

In Reply to: Re: Compassion posted by Jim Marconnet on October 20, 1998 at 09:43:08:

Jim,

Well said! I would like to add that new people seem to mistake Dr. Stoll's direct, no nonsense manner for rudeness. They also take things too personally sometimes. If you show Dr. Stoll you're game to try what he knows will help you, you couldn't ask for a more enthusiastic guide. I can't find a single place where he insulted Nat. I think he looks to challenge people to see if they want to get help or not...

He answers each question here himself, and doesn't have time to feel sorry for everyone's past mistakes. The real compassion here comes in because he makes the time to help those who want to learn and want to help themselves. He already does SO MUCH...

I think when the magnitude of what we must do to help ourselves sinks in, it can be discouraging. Then, when you realize that Dr. Stoll can TEACH YOU THE CURE, it should become your obligation to learn from him.

Well, I'm rambling....

At any rate, I'm glad you didn't EXPLODE, Jim!!!

trish


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Re: Compassion

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 20, 1998 at 11:49:57:

In Reply to: Re: Compassion posted by Jim Marconnet on October 20, 1998 at 09:43:08:

Thanks, Jim.

It needed to be said and I appreciate it!

Namaste` Walt




Re: Compassion

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 20, 1998 at 11:56:49:

In Reply to: Re: Compassion posted by trish on October 20, 1998 at 10:45:16:

Thanks, trish,

You hit the nail on the head when you said what you said about 'he looks to challenge people to see if they want to get help or not".

There is a famous wellness wheel that ranks the healthy potentijal of different attitudes. On that wheel, anger is a LOT healthier than apathy or depression. Many chronic conditions finally wear down their victims until apathy & depression are part of their illness. If I can elicit anger, I have done a lot even before the person does ANYTHING.

I couldn't care less if people get angry at me. If even some of them use a little of that anger energy to learn something, it has been worth while.

Thanks for caring. Walt




Re: Compassion

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 20, 1998 at 12:07:04:

In Reply to: Re: Compassion posted by Sara on October 20, 1998 at 10:26:50:

Thanks, Sara.

Although what you say is true, I am criticized regularly for EVER recommending my book since it smacks of commercialization.

As any regular has noted, I only recommend my book when it is the easiest, quickest, and most accurate way to answer the person's questions. I cannot be expected to rewrite the book to answer a BB question each time it is asked.

It would be wonderful if everyone would read the book first since the level of ALL the discussions on the BB could take a leap upward immediately.

If anyone can think of a way to do that without scaring people off, because might they think I do this just to sell my book, I would be VERY grateful. It would greatly improve the effectiveness of the time I have to spend helping people on this 'site.

Perhaps just a note saying that reading the book first would elevate the level of discussions on the BB and greatly improve what people can get out of participating??????

I don't know. I just want to teach!

Namaste` Walt



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Re: Compassion

Posted by Sara on October 20, 1998 at 13:11:45:

In Reply to: Re: Compassion posted by Walt Stoll on October 20, 1998 at 12:07:04:

Walt,

"Perhaps just a note saying that reading the book first would elevate the level of discussions on the
BB and greatly improve what people can get out of participating??????"

Exactly!!! That shouldn't scare anyone off, and it would cut down on the number of times you have to retype the suggestion to read the book. The first time I posted to this BB, I hadn't read the book yet, and that was your first suggestion. I admit, I was put off by that, but I really think I would have taken it better if it had been a general recommendation at the top of the page. Also, reading the book was a real awakening for me, and participating on this BB without reading it would have been like stumbling along in the dark.

You are a great teacher, but we "students" also have to do our homework if we are to learn anything. Keep in mind, however, that there will always be people out there that want to be "spoon-fed", rather than doing anything for themselves. Most people, especially those that are really sick, want that "magic pill" - I believe the AMA has taught us that lesson well. It's something most of us have to unlearn if we REALLY want to get well.

The average person thinks nothing of spending money each month for cable TV (which costs ALOT more than your book), and then spending endless hours mindlessly absorbed in watching shows that have absolutely no positive impact on their lives. Yet they won't spend a few dollars to buy your book and invest a few hours in reading it.

I, for one, am grateful for your book, this BB, and you.

Namaste` Sara


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Could also suggest picking up book at library (NMI)

Posted by PeggyH on October 20, 1998 at 16:46:27:

In Reply to: Re: Compassion posted by Walt Stoll on October 20, 1998 at 12:07:04:






Re: Compassion

Posted by Robin Pollan on October 20, 1998 at 20:05:12:

In Reply to: Re: Compassion posted by Sara on October 20, 1998 at 13:11:45:

I 2nd that Sara!!!! I am new to this board thanks to Trish and I got Dr. Stoll's book yesterday and finished it within 3 hours. By the time I finished reading the book I was in tears for a number of reasons: I was so overwhelmed by my emotions because I was holding in my hands the answer to my health problems that I have been searching for for the past 3 years (I could finally imagine myself being well), I was also so thankful to Dr. Stoll for writing the book and for Trish leading me to it, but mainly I was saddened by the fact that many people will never get the information Dr. Stoll has for them and if they do they will not beleive it and that to me is the saddest thing I can think of. Some people are just not ready to take responsibility for themselves and I have to realize that because I get so excited about things that I learn, I try to tell everyone and more often than not people roll their eyes at me. I would like to say thank you to Dr. Stoll and Trish again.

Robin Pollan


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Re: Compassion (and ATTN: Greg)

Posted by Sara on October 20, 1998 at 21:52:46:

In Reply to: Re: Compassion posted by Robin Pollan on October 20, 1998 at 20:05:12:

Robin,

I understand exactly how you feel. I felt the same way after reading the book. For the first time in years, I felt hope. I had been down so many blind alleys through the years, and to so many doctors that half the time didn't even listen to what I was trying to tell them. SO frustrating! And of the ones that did listen, most just threw up their hands, as exasperated as I was. Reading the book (and many others that were recommended by Dr. Stoll and participants of this BB) made me realize that I was not in a hopeless situation, at the mercy of doctors that didn't have a clue and didn't care to get one! Dr. Stoll's book made so much sense, and I am seeing positive improvement in my health (physically and emotionally) from following his recommendations. It is so liberating to know that we can actively participate in our own wellness. Just being an active participant in this journey is healing in itself! I am blessed to now have a doctor that shares Dr. Stoll's beliefs, and truly blessed to have Dr. Stoll and this BB.

I, too, have had the "eye rolling" experience from friends. I get excited and want to share it with everyone, but like you said, not everyone is ready to take responsibility for themselves and their health.

I will be forever grateful to Dr. Stoll for his wonderful book and this website. Also, if I never thanked him before, thanks so much to Greg for leading me here. You'll never know the difference it has made in my life.

Sara


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Telling other people

Posted by PeggyH on October 21, 1998 at 02:30:35:

In Reply to: Re: Compassion (and ATTN: Greg) posted by Sara on October 20, 1998 at 21:52:46:


I don't even tell anybody what I'm doing! I'll talk about diet and exercise, but nobody (except my husband and one like-minded friend) knows that I'm meditating and why. I won't even tell my mother or sister. They wouldn't do the eye-roll, they'd just be nice about it, but, I KNOW what they'd be thinking. I don't bother trying to explain these things anymore cuz I know how wacky it sounds to most and they'll just think I'm grasping at straws and full of false hope which will probably leave them feeling sorry for me. But, when I reach my goal, I plan on shouting what I did from the rooftops.

It's wonderful when you do see some of your words getting through. After 10 years of my mother's "low-fat" diet, cholesterol pills, and STILL having high cholesterol, I got her to eliminate sugar and other refined foods, ditch the pills, and her cholesterol is now plummeting. Her doctor told her that her good cholesterol has never been better. She's lost some weight and says she feels great. So, suddenly after all these years, there's these wonderful results, but yet, she didn't tell her doc what she's been doing (she's afraid to tell him that she stopped taking the pills) and he DIDN'T EVEN ASK! Peculiar.

Peggy





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Re: Compassion

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 21, 1998 at 12:19:22:

In Reply to: Re: Compassion posted by Sara on October 20, 1998 at 13:11:45:

Thanks Sara, Robin & Peggy.

Is is feedback like this that keeps giving me the motivation & energy to keep trying. I have seen these same results in my own life and in those of my patients. There is no way that I cannot try ot share it in the years I have left.

Namaste to you all!

Walt




We all get where we choose to go....

Posted by trish on October 21, 1998 at 17:56:09:

In Reply to: Telling other people posted by PeggyH on October 21, 1998 at 02:30:35:

Hi, all!

I think we've all seen those eyes rolling! Luckily most of my friends are already aware that I'm a complete wacky nut, though for different reasons than I'd say so ;-). You should see the looks I get when I even mention Leaky Gut or rant about Rolfing!

But, I still keep telling people and I'm still enthusiastic enough not to care about the rolling eyes...THOSE people will stay the way they are, or just keep getting worse.

But, for the others who are curious, open minded, willing and maybe just fed up with feeling helpless, I keep on talking! I think we all know how Walt feels when he sees that lightbulb go on in someone's head...and when he senses it's someone who's not REALLY looking for an answer, but wants someone else to fix them. We all want to share our knowledge.

So Robin, I thank YOU, too, for NOT rolling your cyber eyes at me the minute I started talking about stress and hypothalamuses ... or is that hypothalami?

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that we are all special people here. We are not like most others; we're here to learn some hard lessons and to gain the power to make ourselves healthy. This is not a small task. We will find each other as we go along, and that's how our numbers will grow, and that is what will tip the scales in the end. We need to keep talking about this with everyone who can hear, whether they roll their eyes or not. We will be our own examples as we get healthier.

Now that I've lost 30 lbs, and my rosacea has cleared up, people are asking me what I've been doing. Now they don't roll their eyes so much!

I'm just glad to be here in such great company!

be well,
trish



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Let 'em roll their eyes all they want...

Posted by Pam on October 21, 1998 at 18:18:58:

In Reply to: We all get where we choose to go.... posted by trish on October 21, 1998 at 17:56:09:

I, too, have experienced a lifetime of rolled eyes. Now I'm having the same experience that Trish is. I've lost 15 pounds. My skin and eyes are clear. My energy level has increased. My thinking and creativity have reached a new level and my intuition has expanded. And I'm new at this!! (just 2 months of skilled relaxation and the extreme agriculturist diet) Now people, some of the same ones who rolled their eyes, come to me and want to know my "secret". Isn't life grand!

A friend of mine has this saying on her wall:
"I'm not weird. I'm gifted."

Here's to all the "gifted" people here.

Namaste,
Pam


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RE Compassion

Posted by Nat on October 21, 1998 at 18:41:36:

In Reply to: Re: Whoa there! Let's (Not) shoot the Messenger! posted by Nat on October 19, 1998 at 23:37:51:


Just want to say after reading all the posts re:" compassion"
I feel that to Dr. Stoll's credit many came to his defense, but most also seemed to have an understanding as to why I said what I did about him not "seeming" compassionate. I hope that Dr. Stolls methods are helping many, sometimes in reading thru it just seems that his book must have the answer to every ill. But I won't comment any further unless or until I read it. Thanks


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Re: RE Compassion

Posted by Jim Marconnet on October 22, 1998 at 09:06:28:

In Reply to: RE Compassion posted by Nat on October 21, 1998 at 18:41:36:

> sometimes in reading thru it just seems that his book must
have the answer to every ill.

Actually his book just touches the tip of the iceburg, but it does provide a much higher level of understanding and practice than people would typically have had they not read the book. So I think the frequently-heard recommendation to read the book first is sound.

RocketHealer Jim++



Re: Let 'em roll their eyes all they want...

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 22, 1998 at 12:00:06:

In Reply to: Let 'em roll their eyes all they want... posted by Pam on October 21, 1998 at 18:18:58:

Thanks, trish & Pam.

I really DO think that testimonials are more effective than anything I can say. See the notes by Trish, 10/21/98 about the imbedded rape & her beginning understanding--
especially about my response about Rolfing.

I GREATLY appreciate your help!

Namaste` to you both! Walt



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Um, Walt? I think you meant Terrie...

Posted by trish on October 22, 1998 at 13:07:26:

In Reply to: Re: Let 'em roll their eyes all they want... posted by Walt Stoll on October 22, 1998 at 12:00:06:

You wrote, "See the notes by Trish, 10/21/98 about the
imbedded rape & her beginning understanding--
especially about my response about Rolfing."

Just to clarify.... the note on that date were posted by Terrie, not me!

:-)
trish


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Re: Um, Walt? I think you meant Terrie...

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 25, 1998 at 09:32:30:

In Reply to: Um, Walt? I think you meant Terrie... posted by trish on October 22, 1998 at 13:07:26:

Thanks, trish!

Just call me "knookiehead". That is what my son, Bill, calls me when I screw up like this!

Namaste` Walt



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Well, okay, is that first "k" silent? :-)

Posted by trish on October 26, 1998 at 15:00:10:

In Reply to: Re: Um, Walt? I think you meant Terrie... posted by Walt Stoll on October 25, 1998 at 09:32:30:

No problem at all, Walt, I just didn't want any confusion about it.

Knamaste'
trish



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