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accutane

Posted by
Anthony on May 11, 2000 at 23:41:38:

I have been taking accutane for about 15 days now and no good results. I am taking 40mg a day and i still break out with zits. Is this normal, when is it going to stop. Please help. And also can u recommend a good moisturizer and sun screen. Thank you.



Re: accutane

Posted by
Kyra on May 12, 2000 at 01:13:16:

In Reply to: accutane posted by Anthony on May 11, 2000 at 23:41:38:


Hi Anthony,

If it's not getting better now, Accutane isn't ever going to make it better. Accutane is a dangerous and in most cases ineffective drug which no doc in his/her right mind should be prescribing. Go to the Archives and Glossary of this BB and read up on Accutane. You'll find answers to your question there. Hope this helps.

Kyra



Re: accutane

Posted by Jim H. on May 12, 2000 at 09:01:05:

In Reply to: Re: accutane posted by Kyra on May 12, 2000 at 01:13:16:

Oh, come on, Kyra, don't be shy. Tell us what you really think! (insert grin here)

Jim H.



Hello Jim...hope all has been well with you...

Posted by
trish on May 12, 2000 at 10:30:28:

In Reply to: Re: accutane posted by Jim H. on May 12, 2000 at 09:01:05:

I was just wondering about you...haven't seen you around lately! And now you beat me to teasing Kyra about her post :-) !

trish



Re: Hello Jim and Trish...hope all has been well with you...

Posted by
Kyra on May 12, 2000 at 15:25:47:

In Reply to: Hello Jim...hope all has been well with you... posted by trish on May 12, 2000 at 10:30:28:


Ok guys,

Bait swallowed. :) Here comes the down and dirty. Accutane is an evil, disgustic pharmaceutical POS that is an immediate competence/laziness/IQ indicator as to any doc idiot who prescribes it. If a doc tried to prescribe me accutane I'd give him/her (my, aren't we being politically correct here...) the finger and a caustic verbal thrashing, with pharmaceutical insert in hand. Accutane s---s! So what works for cystic acne? Yeah, yeah, that boring stuff. Diet appropriate to metabolic type, less Nintendo and more excercise, and meditation. That and a thorough hormone work-up to include cortisol, aldosterone, testosterone, DHEA, estradiol, and progesterone levels. Some inborn hormone screw-ups need an additional medical boost, but you have to find an internist or endo comptetent enough to diagnose and treat (good luck...) Accutane? Hell no!

The gentle and serene Kyra



Re: Hello Jim and Trish...hope all has been well with you...

Posted by
trish on May 12, 2000 at 19:21:08:

In Reply to: Re: Hello Jim and Trish...hope all has been well with you... posted by Kyra on May 12, 2000 at 15:25:47:

So...We caught a Kyrafish? Our first, I believe.

Your gentle serenity flows forth like a..... giant fireball exploding out of a flamethrower... ! That's what I like so much about you!

I must admit that I never had acne, but I do have an opinion about Accutane and you've pretty much summed it up. I have a friend who's taken it and she still breaks out...I've tried to steer her here, but this type of journey isn't for everyone. So, do you remember that you were the one who gave me a heads up awhile ago about DHEA? What's the answer to the hormone thing? SR, I know, but it seems that I need more than just that. I tried supplementing and was crawling out of my own skin for awhile until you mentioned the DHEA connection - I stopped taking it and calmed right down. But I still seem to have energy problems...I have a follow up appt. with my doc to discuss some test results, so I'm not real sure where I am right now - candida's gone :-) but still some fatigue remains...I know better now than to start popping a bunch of hormones anyway !

Good to see you up and about - how's Nick doing? I think of him so often.

be well,
trish



The Victim of Saint Paul

Posted by Jim H. on May 12, 2000 at 19:49:46:

In Reply to: Hello Jim...hope all has been well with you... posted by trish on May 12, 2000 at 10:30:28:

Trish,

Oh, I still lurks a bit. With Walt absent and the board limping along on momentum, I haven't post any stories, but I have sent a couple to Walt. I'll post them so they can be archived. This old timers string seems as good a place as any.

In the past couple of years, I have posted stories mentioning my mother's ordeal with a chronic disease process which recently reached a conclusion.

The trek to bury Mother is a tale of dogs in the car, dogs in the motel room, dogs at Grandpa’s (even I call him "Grandpa" now), and stepping lightly in the family mine fields.

But all the woulda, coulda, shoulda of the family is not worth relating here. We’ve all heard it before and lived it ourselves. What would we be without the family mud from which we arise? A rhetorical question, to be sure. Do we ever stand cleansed and whole in this life? Another rhetorical question.

Ah, but we had a moment, an unexpected Bacchanalian romp with the god of fermented fruit. It was one of those spontaneous eruptions of mirth and euphoria that arrive in the midst of seriousness. Most of us would relate to it as giggles in church. It falls into the category of "you had to be there".

A lot of tension, throughout our visit, was broken whenever Grandpa left the room. We would speak in hushed tones, when he was absent, of the things we could not say in his presence. More happened when he left the house on errands. Then Sharon and my sister would let the dogs in, for instance, and irreverence would abound, once in the form of a bawdy song from Wrestle Mania sung for us by my sister, whose daughter is fully into pro wrestling. That is another story, a most remarkable other story.

So, when Grandpa left the house a couple hours before the graveside ceremony, my daughter, God bless her, broke out a bottle of Chardonnay. I popped the cork on some Muscat dessert wine, for which I have a weakness, and soon we were all pleasantly glazed.

When Grandpa returned, he took one look at the open bottle and exclaimed with a suddenly bright face, "Oh, we get to drink?" At that we all laughed heartily.

So we poured him a glass, and in a short while, after a couple of long sighs, he pulled out the card of the Episcopal priest who would be conducting the ceremony. He sat on the arm of the couch and studied it for awhile, and things got quiet.

Finally he read, "Beverly Factor, Rector of Saint Paul’s Episcopal Church." He frowned, "Uh oh, this could be a problem. I have to introduce her. What if I call her Beverly Rector and say she is the Factor?" At this we all howled, as Grandpa, with arms folded, held up the card and did his best Jack Benny deadpan.

As the laughter died down, I heard my voice say, "Well, as long as you don’t introduce her as the ‘Rectum’ of Saint Paul’s…." This began another gale of laughter.

By now our eyes were streaming, and our cheeks were aching. As our laughter subsided once again, sister Linda commanded our attention with raised index finger, "Now, wait," and she paused, her timing impeccable, "Wouldn’t she be called the Vicar?"

Grandpa groaned, "Oh no, now I’ll never get it right…..Factor……Rector…..Vicar!" At this we were all given over to the farce and lay splayed in our chairs dissolving in the glee of it, till it was clear there was no more laughter in us.

When, at last we had quieted some, someone mumbled, "I give you Beverly Rectum, Victim of Saint Paul’s." Another groan from Grandpa, and, somehow, in spite of our attempts against it, we were carried off again. Breath was so hard to come by I began to laugh at the thought of them having to bury six of us instead of one.

Cindy brought us sober when she said, as she tried to catch her breath, "Grandma would have loved this." We remembered and agreed.

To this Sharon added, "She does."

In the ensuing quiet, we became aware of the time. With Mother’s presence strong among us, we arose to go to the cemetery, relaxed and relieved.

Grandpa did just fine with the introduction, too, with a slight smile on his face that only the family understood!

Jim





Re: Kyra Didn't That Make You feel Better Getting It Out?. nmi

Posted by Paulette on May 12, 2000 at 19:54:54:

In Reply to: Re: Hello Jim and Trish...hope all has been well with you... posted by Kyra on May 12, 2000 at 15:25:47:


:-)



Re: The Victim of Saint Paul

Posted by
trish on May 12, 2000 at 21:24:19:

In Reply to: The Victim of Saint Paul posted by Jim H. on May 12, 2000 at 19:49:46:

Oh, Jim,

I have missed you! Thank you so much for sharing that...perhaps one had to be there, but you certainly put us all right there.

I am so sorry for your loss.

be well,
trish



Re: Yowza Trish

Posted by
Kyra on May 12, 2000 at 23:06:29:

In Reply to: Re: The Victim of Saint Paul posted by trish on May 12, 2000 at 21:24:19:


Hey Trish,

It's been a coon's age, eh what? It's an old age home nostalgia thread...all of us wizened old timers gumming away at our memories. Thanks for your thoughts of Nick. The twitchy Boddhisattva kiddo is doing just fine; currently watching "Stargate" after a (dare I say it?) Burger King dinner with buddy Jay and little brother Torry. We're walking the Dinner Middle Path tonight. Chris is working late with a soon to be graduated grad student and I'm doing Mom Refuses to Cook archetype, as opposed to Irreverent Broad, Know it all Smart Ass, or Madam Palm call 900 Psychic Hotline Morph.

Switching to Know It All Archetype...um, duh. The DHEA Question. I think it's grossly over-hyped and often dangerous to fool around with. Only reason I think folks with intractible acne should get their DHEA levels tested is in relation to what a high or low DHEA could imply as to other hormone levels. Endocrine/steroid hormones are my current self-education kick in all my tons of spare time. I do think that some folks (with or without acne) need solid endocrine monitoring and possible supplementation of various hormones along with the wellness program. I fall into that category. No question, though, that if I didn't do that three legged stool I'd be over the top. End Pompous Intellectual Wannabee Morph. Enter Irreverent Broad. No, I don't have zits. How's it hangin', girl?

Her Serene Nonsense,
Kyra

P.S. How's your mom doing?




Re: Oh you betcha, Paulette...I feel like totally cleansed :) (nmi)

Posted by
Kyra on May 12, 2000 at 23:10:39:

In Reply to: Re: Kyra Didn't That Make You feel Better Getting It Out?. nmi posted by Paulette on May 12, 2000 at 19:54:54:

nmi



Re: The Victim of Saint Paul

Posted by
Kyra on May 12, 2000 at 23:13:55:

In Reply to: The Victim of Saint Paul posted by Jim H. on May 12, 2000 at 19:49:46:

Yo, Jim dude,

Way cool!

Kyra, yo sistah



Wazzzaaaappp?

Posted by
trish on May 13, 2000 at 00:05:57:

In Reply to: Re: Yowza Trish posted by Kyra on May 12, 2000 at 23:06:29:

Who, me?

I been fighting for truth, justice, and the American way. :-o

No, wait, that's Superman.

Now I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that gumming comment, but it IS good to be among the fossilized remains! Soon we'll be fueling someone's car...

And sounds like everything in the Archetypal household is happening. Cool. Glad to hear little Nick is thriving despite the BK.

I been busy totally changing my life...moved out of a longtime relationship, got engaged, quittin' my job, movin' outta state...whoa! Looks like too much when I write it down like this.

Don't know how well my hormones are doing though...last time around when you lit my bulb, the hormone panel showed some deficiencies, and I came home with Testosterone, DHEA and hydrocortisone? maybe that's wrong, but anyway, after figuring out the DHEA was wiring me out so bad, I just quit taking everything. Didn't feel too different, but I was also loaded with candida at the time. So, now I'm wondering what this test will show...Like I said, no zits either, but not enough energy!

Mom is spectacular. I've decided that she will die of something else besides the bone/liver cancer. Her liver lesions have all but disappeared, and her bone stuff has remained the same. She has very little pain and is tolerating the low dose chemo quite well -in fact, she likes it! Says she feel more energetic afterwards - I'm certain it's a psychological effect of feeling like the chemo is kickin' the CAs @ss. She goes to a support center and feels sorry for all the younger people with kids who have something and are afraid to leave their kids...she feels lucky. I feel lucky to have such a strong woman as a mother. It has brought us closer as a family and on a parent/child level, too.

Saionara, my
Irreverent, Smart Ass (the way I like 'em)
Friend!
trish
soon-to-still-have-the-same-last-name-but-be-married.



That's ridiculous Kyra!

Posted by carrie on May 13, 2000 at 04:21:11:

In Reply to: accutane posted by Anthony on May 11, 2000 at 23:41:38:

Honestly. Obviously you don't know much about the drug Accutane Kyra and I really think that maybe you should not be giving advice on something you do not know about.
Anthony I hope you read this and if you do please don't worry. A lot of people don't start to see results until much later on in their treatment. I know of some people who didn't clear up until their last month and then their acne was completely gone...one of these people was my mom and she's been clear of acne for about 10 years now. But, really most people don't see the results of accutane until their 3rd or 4th month...so be patient! ;)



Re: St. Paul etc.

Posted by Jim H. on May 13, 2000 at 08:14:00:

In Reply to: Re: The Victim of Saint Paul posted by trish on May 12, 2000 at 21:24:19:

Trish,

Thanks for the kind words.

And now I'm going to have to post the story again. I forgot to write "archive" on it. It’s for sure our frivolous little old timers string isn’t going to get archived. I better do it before the angry gods of Accutane come along and torch it altogether.

Walt has created an archive page of all my little stories. Sometimes I go there just to marvel at how they are building up. I began writing them about the time I started experimenting with the wellness program, what, three years ago this July. It's one of my therapies, ya know (notes from alpha). (grin, but true)

My best to you,

Jim



The Victim Of Saint Paul - Archive

Posted by Jim H. on May 13, 2000 at 08:21:12:

In Reply to: Re: St. Paul etc. posted by Jim H. on May 13, 2000 at 08:14:00:

Dear Walt,

The trek to bury Mother is a tale of dogs in the car, dogs in the motel room, dogs at Grandpa’s (even I call him "Grandpa" now), and stepping lightly in the family mine fields.

But all the woulda, coulda, shoulda of the family is not worth relating here. We’ve all heard it before and lived it ourselves. What would we be without the family mud from which we arise? A rhetorical question, to be sure. Do we ever stand cleansed and whole in this life? Another rhetorical question.

Ah, but we had a moment, an unexpected Bacchanalian romp with the god of fermented fruit. It was one of those spontaneous eruptions of mirth and euphoria that arrive in the midst of seriousness. Most of us would relate to it as giggles in church. It falls into the category of "you had to be there".

A lot of tension, throughout our visit, was broken whenever Grandpa left the room. We would speak in hushed tones, when he was absent, what we could not say in his presence. More happened when he left the house on errands. Then Sharon and my sister would let the dogs in, for instance, and irreverence would abound, once in the form of a bawdy song from Wrestle Mania sung for us by my sister, whose daughter is fully into pro wrestling. That is another story, a most remarkable other story.

So, Grandpa left the house a couple hours before the graveside ceremony. My daughter, God bless her, broke out a bottle of Chardonnay. I popped the cork on some Muscat dessert wine, for which I have a weakness, and soon we were all pleasantly glazed.

When Grandpa returned, he took one look at the open bottle and exclaimed with a suddenly bright face, "Oh, we get to drink?" At that we all laughed heartily.

So we poured him a glass, and in a short while, after a couple of long sighs, he pulled out the card of the Episcopal priest who would be conducting the ceremony. He sat on the arm of the couch and studied it for awhile, and things got quiet.

Finally he read, "Beverly Factor, Rector of Saint Paul’s Episcopal Church." He frowned, "Uh oh, this could be a problem. I have to introduce her. What if I call her Beverly Rector and say she is the Factor?" At this we all howled, as Grandpa, with arms folded, held up the card and did his best Jack Benny deadpan.

As the laughter died down, I heard my voice say, "Well, as long as you don’t introduce her as the ‘Rectum’ of Saint Paul’s…." This began another gale of laughter.

By now our eyes were streaming, and our cheeks were aching. As our laughter subsided once again, sister Linda commanded our attention with raised index finger, "Now, wait," and she paused, her timing impeccable, "Wouldn’t she be called the Vicar?"

Grandpa groaned, "Oh no, now I’ll never get it right…..Factor……Rector…..Vicar!" At this we were all given over to the farce and lay splayed in our chairs dissolving in the glee of it, till it was clear there was no more laughter in us.

When, at last we had quieted some, someone mumbled, "I give you Beverly Rectum, Victim of Saint Paul’s." Another groan from Grandpa, and, somehow, in spite of our attempts against it, we were carried off again. Breath was so hard to come by I began to laugh at the thought of them having to bury six of us instead of one.

Cindy brought us sober when she said, as she tried to catch her breath, "Grandma would have loved this." We remembered and agreed.

To this Sharon added, "She does."

In the ensuing quiet, we became aware of the time. With Mother’s presence strong among us, we arose to go to the cemetery, relaxed and relieved.

Grandpa did just fine with the introduction, too, with a slight smile on his face that only the family understood!

Jim





You should read some of the messages about this...

Posted by
trish on May 13, 2000 at 10:55:27:

In Reply to: That's ridiculous Kyra! posted by carrie on May 13, 2000 at 04:21:11:

before you go telling Kyra she doesn't know what she's talking about. Your mom was very lucky. Some of the unlucky people have posted here with vision problems, continued hair loss, depression, joint aches and pains, worsening acne...the list goes on. These things are happening to people years after they take the drug. Accutane is a huge risk.

I'm glad your mom was lucky, but that doesn't mean Accutane is safe.

be well,
trish



Re: That's ridiculous Kyra!--It's The Truth Anthony!

Posted by Paulette on May 13, 2000 at 11:33:53:

In Reply to: That's ridiculous Kyra! posted by carrie on May 13, 2000 at 04:21:11:


Hi, Carrie

I support Kyra and Trish on this one as I've been reading the posts, as well as archives, in addition to numerous articles on ACCUTANE & how dangerous can be on individual basis.

Anthony I would advise you to contact your Doctor about your concerns.

Here's an article I've got in my files I'd like to share with everyone. From someone who knows what they're talking aoubt!

Take Care Of Yourself

Paulette


Accutane for Adult Acne?
by Allan Spreen, M.D.


I'm wrestling with my GP and previous dermatologist as to the correct prescription to cure my adult acne. I took Accutane with great results 15 years ago, and had no problems with my complexion until I started to have kids. In the last three years it has gotten worse and I began to take Accutane again last year. My face was beautiful again! I ran out of the prescription and asked my GP to refill it, as my dermatologist is out of state and can't legally refill prescriptions over the phone. The GP says I'm taking it unwisely and not how the FDA approved it to be taken. He wants me to try more antibiotics, etc., which DO NOT WORK! What should I do?


There are several issues here. First of all, I'm afraid your GP is correct. Accutane is a dangerous drug, even as drugs go. I'm afraid of 'em all, but this one deserves considerable respect, even if you aren't pregnant. (In case of pregnancy, it is ABSOLUTELY MANDATORY that you not take it. It is even recommended that women of childbearing age have TWO different negative pregnancy tests before taking it, and use VERY reliable birth control.)

Whether it works or not, I recommend that you drop by your pharmacist and ask him for the information insert for Accutane, and read it carefully. Accutane interacts with alcohol and some antibiotics. It can cause blood abnormalities, abnormal bone growth, elevated cholesterol and triglycerides, inflammatory bowel disease, increased pressure on the brain (with many associated problems), hair loss, nosebleeds and more. Fun stuff -- and it's only meant for short courses, with long breaks between. Your GP is doing you a favor.

There's much you can do to fight acne without Accutane. Both Accutane and Retin-A (and the newer-labeled Renova) are outgrowths of vitamin A research for skin. I recommend taking vitamin A in its natural, fish oil form, and supplementing it with vitamin C. It takes a lot of vitamin A to experience adverse reactions, which can include headache and possible (temporary) slight thinning of hair. I've used over 100,000iu daily in many situations and never seen problems, but you should consider doses over the RDA (10,000iu) only with a medical professional to monitor you.

True, results are slower than with the drugs, taking up to three months, but the outcome can be the same with adequate dosing. Results tend to be much better at or above 50,000iu, though the dosage can be split between vitamin A and beta-carotene, a non-toxic, water-soluble precursor to the vitamin. (I do not see results using beta-carotene alone.)

You can also put vitamin A directly on the skin. Alternate applying vitamin A and E topically. (The oils are nourishing and seem to lessen the body's need to make its own oils in the skin.) Retin-A and Renova are topical applications of altered vitamin A. They work for acne and for wrinkles (of course, vitamin A does, too). They're a lot more expensive than vitamin A, but they aren't as oily, so there is a convenience there

Also, get off the sugar and refined flour products. Test foods you crave by giving them up for seven days and looking for symptoms on reintroduction (food sensitivities causing acne are common, especially in adults). And trash the chocolate (no matter what the dermatologist says about it).

A word about antibiotics. They can work, too, but they do it by killing bacteria that the skin is too unhealthy to fight against. Bear in mind that all antibiotics are basically non-selective, meaning they destroy "good guy" bacteria as well as (or better than) the bad ones. Always take probiotic supplements (like acidophilus, etc.) in high doses while on antibiotics.

Good Health,
A.N. Spreen, M.D.










Shut up Kyra!

Posted by guess who on May 17, 2000 at 15:35:53:

In Reply to: Re: Hello Jim and Trish...hope all has been well with you... posted by Kyra on May 12, 2000 at 15:25:47:

Until you've become a licensed dermatologist or have taken Accutane, I think you should keep your mouth shut. Ya ya I know about the possible side effects of Accutane, but people considering Accutane should be told these things by their doctor and not from some person off the street. You also have to remember that the majority of people experience very good results from Accutane, but they fail to post their good experiences on boards such as this because they feel no need to! Their skin is clear, they have no reason to ask for help. I honestly think that you've probably never had acne because you obviously have no idea how a acne sufferer feels. Accutane is many sufferers last hope..even after they tried the "wellness diet or plan" that you guys always talk about on here. Yes, I agree there can be risks going on Accutane especially with pregnancy, but there are people out there that aren't sexually active or take birth control! Anyways, I had severe acne and basicly I was willing to take any risk to get rid of it. I took Accutane and had no long-term side effects at all (been off of it for 3 and a half years). Even if I did experience some long-term side effects like say permanent hair-thinning..man I would take that ANYDAY over severe acne. Having acne is hell. I would never go out, and I never wanted to be seen in public.
It is sad how appearance can change our outlook on life, but it does. Please don't put down a drug that has done soo much for me and other people until you have taken it or have been through medical school. Thanks.



Re: Shut up Kyra!--She Has A Right To Speak, Just As You Do!

Posted by Paulette on May 17, 2000 at 15:57:29:

In Reply to: Shut up Kyra! posted by guess who on May 17, 2000 at 15:35:53:


Hi, Guess Who

Remember, this BB has the pros and cons of Accutanej! Kyra has the right to speak her opinion just as you have the right to speak yours.

In the event, you have the time to research Accutane through this BB archives. You'll be able to read all the posts in favor and the warnings.

There's no need for anyone to advise another person to "shut up," as their opinions differ from someone not willing to identify themselves! Each person needs to research an dmake their own decision whether to use or not
to use this drug.

I normally steer clear of posts like this, however, there's no reason for this kind of reply!

Hope This Helps & Take Care Of Yourself

Paulette



Re: (Bill) Please Don't tell anyone I asked you to look at this thread for possible removal! (NMI)

Posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on May 17, 2000 at 16:45:19:

In Reply to: Shut up Kyra! posted by guess who on May 17, 2000 at 15:35:53:

:-)



Re: Shut up Kyra!

Posted by
June on May 17, 2000 at 16:51:35:

In Reply to: Shut up Kyra! posted by guess who on May 17, 2000 at 15:35:53:

I give up, who?

There are plenty of posts endorsing positive effects with no regrets on Accutane on this board and posts indulging individuals' experiences are always welcome. Many participants on this forum, however, seem to feel doctors do not divulge enough information for patients to make an informed choice, which is another thing BB participants in general should learn to expect. I am glad that (so far) you have had no catastrophic side-effects. I made a post just the other day that my husband is still fine 2 decades after his Accutane course.

Please share more of your positive experience for others to read - you have the right to do that just as Kyra or anyone else has the right to make a public post about a health subject.

June



Re: (Bill) Please Don't tell anyone I asked you to look at this thread for possible removal! (NMI)

Posted by Bill on May 17, 2000 at 18:17:20:

In Reply to: Re: (Bill) Please Don't tell anyone I asked you to look at this thread for possible removal! (NMI) posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on May 17, 2000 at 16:45:19:

In my best George Bush imitation..

Not gonna do it. uh uh. Not gonna go there.

Acne and accutane stir up some strong feelings. Check the archives. It's a fact of life. But I recommend you not get involved in this thread, Jim! :)

Bill



Thanks, Bill, and Jim...

Posted by
trish aka anyone on May 17, 2000 at 19:06:04:

In Reply to: Re: (Bill) Please Don't tell anyone I asked you to look at this thread for possible removal! (NMI) posted by Bill on May 17, 2000 at 18:17:20:

Bill's right, check the archives...Kyra has handled a lot worse than a little "shut up"...as have a few of us, all without any damage! I wouldn't worry about it at all Jim - you seem to have survived quite well yourself ;-)

be well,
trish


scared ya, didn't I?



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