Robert McFerran's Diets Archives

Pritikin or Ornish program for H/Gs - a contradiction in terms?

[ Robert McFerran's Diets Archive ]
[ Main Archives Page ] [ Glossary/Index ]
[ FAQ ] [ Recommended Books ] [ Bulletin Board ]
   Search this site!
 
        

Pritikin or Ornish program for H/Gs - a contradiction in terms?

Posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on June 19, 1999 at 02:55:57:

Robert, Walt, anyone?

Here's an easy one compared to the recent tough questions posed here.

How can a H/G go onto a Pritikin or Ornish program? Seems like this is a contradiction in terms.

Or would a H/G ever NEED to go on a Pritikin or Ornish program, even if he/she had been eating properly/improperly for his inherited metabolic type.

I'm sure this is just too simple for me to have understood on my own. Thus my confusion on the matter.

Thanks in advance.
Rocket Healer (and H/G) Jim++



Re: Pritikin or Ornish program for H/Gs - a contradiction in terms?

Posted by
Robert McFerran on June 19, 1999 at 13:08:58:

In Reply to: Pritikin or Ornish program for H/Gs - a contradiction in terms? posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on June 19, 1999 at 02:55:57:

Jim,

In my estimation the REASON why the Ornish and Pritikin program works FOR SOME FOLKS is that they are EXTREME AGRICULTURISTS. So, if you go to into a room full of patients that have reversed their coronary disease using the Ornish plan you can bet you are looking at a bunch of folks ALL WITH EXTREME AGRICULTURIST METABOLISMS. The simple fact that they did not eat in an EXTREME Agriculturist manner beforehand is EXACTLY what caused their mal-ADAPTATION and brought on their early coronary disease.

In like manner the cadre of sick H-G's that have come to this board have found that their mal-ADAPTATION was brought on by embracing things like the Ornish diet, vegetarianism, etc.

Bob -- who is not convinced that you are a H-G



Re: Pritikin or Ornish program for H/Gs - Why am I NOT a H/G?

Posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on June 20, 1999 at 07:57:05:

In Reply to: Re: Pritikin or Ornish program for H/Gs - a contradiction in terms? posted by Robert McFerran on June 19, 1999 at 13:08:58:

Bob:

Thanks so much for that wonderful insight! It makes soooooo much sense to me. And it is NOT a one-size-fits all diet solution, which the Ornishes, Pritkins, etc. tend to "sell". They seem to think everyone in the universe should eat below 10% fat to be healthy.

A followup question: Why are you not convinced I'm a H/G and what do you think I really am?

I'll not set out to convince you either way - I've based my categorization on your writeup used to determine H/G vs Ag and my personal experiences with different foods over my years. I've not tried the E-diet.



Re: Pritikin or Ornish program for H/Gs - Why am I NOT a H/G?

Posted by
Robert McFerran on June 20, 1999 at 11:10:45:

In Reply to: Re: Pritikin or Ornish program for H/Gs - Why am I NOT a H/G? posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on June 20, 1999 at 07:57:05:

Jim,

I just wanted to note that I haven't seen YOUR logic behind the assessment that you have inherited a H-G metabolism.

Eating at a one of the metabolic EXTREMES (either the Ornish Plan or eating red meat 3 times a day) can be risky business -- especially IF you happen to occupy the OTHER metabolic extreme.

Bob



Re: Pritikin or Ornish program for H/Gs - Why am I NOT a H/G? (APPLES & ORANGES!) Archive

Posted by Walt Stoll on June 21, 1999 at 11:47:25:

In Reply to: Re: Pritikin or Ornish program for H/Gs - Why am I NOT a H/G? posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on June 20, 1999 at 07:57:05:

Dear RocketHealer Jim.

I just couldn't let this go on any longer without doing a little steering.

The 10% fat diet (a la Pritikin & Ornish) is a "therapeutic" diet designed to reverse a potentially fatal condition. No one knowledgable thinks it is a "healthy" diet. As a matter of fact, if one stays on the diet, once the atherosclerotic condition is reversed (about a year or 2--depending on how well the person does the program)), they will get sick.

Pritikin did not understand that. All he knew was that his coronary artery disease went away with a 10% diet & he stayed on it. He died of cancer and, for the last 10 years of his life, looked like death warmed over. His autopsy showed the coronary arteries to be as healthy as a baby's. "The operation was a success but the patient died."

The body needs at least 10% of its calories as fat or it cannot make hormones. If one eats LESS than 10% the body has to scavage for the rest. One of the places it takes it from is what is stored in the walls of the arteries (atherosclerosis). Once there is no longer any stored fat, the person has to increase the fat content to 15% of calories ingested for a maintenance diet to prevent recurrence AND maintain health!

The agriculturist and HG diets are diets for the health of THAT individual. It is true that "healthy people" do not have atherosclerosis. HOWEVER, once they DO, it takes too long to reverse it just by going to a healthy diet for that person. Remember, these people are at risk of sudden death at any moment.

Is this making any sense? If one (who already has coronary artery disease)wants to do the healthy HG or agri diet I see no problem with that so long as they understand WHY the Pritikin Diet works & sees that BOTH are satisfied.

Talk at me!

Walt



Re: Pritikin or Ornish program for H/Gs - Why am I NOT a H/G? (APPLES & ORANGES!) Archive

Posted by RocketHealer Jim++ on June 21, 1999 at 13:17:06:

In Reply to: Re: Pritikin or Ornish program for H/Gs - Why am I NOT a H/G? (APPLES & ORANGES!) Archive posted by Walt Stoll on June 21, 1999 at 11:47:25:

Thanks Walt!

That makes a lot of sense. You had discussed theraputic diets earlier. You here added some insight here on the need for such diets (sudden death!) and combining H/G or AG with them. That makes a lot more sense to me than the parts I'd seen separately before.

Hope it helps others understand it too. I'll figure out something to put into the Glossary on this nugget.




[ Robert McFerran's Diets Archive ]
[ Main Archives Page ] [ Glossary/Index ]
[ FAQ ] [ Recommended Books ] [ Bulletin Board ]
   Search this site!