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Torn Labrum question for Dr. Stoll

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Torn Labrum question for Dr. Stoll

Posted by Steven on September 25, 2003 at 11:13:49:

Dr. Stoll,

I figured I would ask you this before I go back to spending a ton of dough and time on surgeons and procedures and more tests. Is it possible that having the anxiety that I so obviously have can actually cause sports or orthopedic injuries? I have repeated problems in my shoulders (both of them) after weight training (not very heavy at all) and playing sports recreationally. I don't overdo it at all yet seem to keep getting injured. I had surgery last year for a torn labrum and have really taken it easy since then. The doctor didn't "fix" anyting but rather did a debridement and subacromial bursectomy. The sling came off the next day. I did and continue to do the rehab exercises. But I have not become 100 percent and an MRI I did last week showed extensive damage in the same shoulder I had cleaned out last year. I mean I have barely lifted and rarely thrown a ball so I am confused how this can keep happening to me. I really do not want another surgery for this and am looking into ART therapy as a possible alternative but don't know if they can fix this. Can my anxiety be causing this by making me tense or something? Thank you.



Re: Torn Labrum question for Dr. Stoll (Archive in bracing.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on September 26, 2003 at 06:43:43:

In Reply to: Torn Labrum question for Dr. Stoll posted by Steven on September 25, 2003 at 11:13:49:

Hi, Steven.

I am assuming you are talking about the labrum glenoidale.

This cartilagenous deepener of the shallow glenoid fossa is directly attached to, and part of, the biceps tendon.

In my opinion, anyone with this kind of repair should not be doing ANY weight lifting--at least for a number of years after resolving bracing, taking glucosamine, omega 3s and MSM, for a few years. He should be doing long distance swimming or underwater aerobics.

I just hope it is not too late for you to do that.

Let us know how you do.

Walt



Response

Posted by Steven on September 26, 2003 at 08:54:37:

In Reply to: Re: Torn Labrum question for Dr. Stoll (Archive in bracing.) posted by Walt Stoll on September 26, 2003 at 06:43:43:

Dr. Stoll

Thanks for the reply. I take Glucosamine 2 times a day. I tried it with MSM but it tasted nasty. I have not taken Omega 3's because of my difficulty in swallowing. I started eating a handful of pistachios every day though for this. Unfortunately for me, underwater activities are nowhere to be found to me. The physical therapist has me use weights to strengthen the muscle. I'm curious how pro atheletes can do so much damage and continue to weight train and play at that level. I realize they take stuff for pain but it's not just the pain. It's the lack of strength and feeling. I would even think about body checking someone with this, much less throwing a 80+ MPH pitch. I can't even throw half my regular speed.

Let me add that the one I take is Glucosamine and Chondroitin sulfate (chewable from the Vitamin Shoppe). It has Glucosamine HCL 750 mg and Chrondroitin Sulfate A 600mg per wafer which I take 2 times a day.



Re: Response

Posted by Walt Stoll on September 27, 2003 at 07:11:33:

In Reply to: Response posted by Steven on September 26, 2003 at 08:54:37:

Thanks, Steven.

Of course the omega 3s is available in liquid form.

What do you know about the term "weekend warrier"?

ANY reduction in bracing (see the archives for options) would help this.

In my opinion, the chondroitin is worthless and may be causing an inflammatory response.

How far is it to the nearest indoor public pool?

Walt



Re: Response

Posted by Steven on September 27, 2003 at 09:28:53:

In Reply to: Re: Response posted by Walt Stoll on September 27, 2003 at 07:11:33:

Hmm, I only take the glucosamine/chondoiton because it comes in chewable form. The problem with swallowing is purely psychological but it is still there. I saw the liquid form but it must be nasty. Does eating the pistachios every day help? In terms of the bracing, I am already trying the SR for the other probs so Im hoping it would help. Im really not sure which method would work for me though. I am reading and trying them all but some of them seem like they would not work for me. The nearest indoor public pool is pretty far. There is an outdoor one but obviously only in the summer. There used to be one at my old gym but it was far away (like 40 minutes by car without traffic). I had to stop going there because it took too long with traffic.



Re: Response (shoulder surgery) Archive in bracing.

Posted by Walt Stoll on September 28, 2003 at 06:18:43:

In Reply to: Re: Response posted by Steven on September 27, 2003 at 09:28:53:

Thanks, Steven.

Boy, It looks like we will have to approach this set of conditions with at least one hand tied behind our backs.

You did not respond to my question about the "weekend warrier". Unfortunately, this is a big part of your problem--in my opinion.

My alternative suggestions are these--to get started: #1 is to figure out what kind of SR WILL work for you and check it with biofeedback (GSR) until you know what is working. Then practice it assiduously at least twice day and described on this website. #2 is to begin a daily form of any stretching program (Synergetics is a good one.) #3 is to learn about either Alexander Technique OR Feldenkrais (archives, library or internet search) and practice it daily. Use the glossary for any unfamiliar terms and the search engine when you have trouble.

As you begin to see results from that, let us know for further suggestions. The combination of these approaches will begin to increase your confidence and the pill swallowing problem will become a thing of the past. Your weekend warrier pattern will have to be discarded.

Hope this helps.

Walt



Re: Response (shoulder surgery) Archive in bracing.

Posted by Steven on September 28, 2003 at 14:37:50:

In Reply to: Re: Response (shoulder surgery) Archive in bracing. posted by Walt Stoll on September 28, 2003 at 06:18:43:

Walt,

I will look up all this stuff today.

In terms of "weekend warrior", I assume you mean someone who plays only a few hours a week, only on the weekend. I'm not quite sure of your meaning with that though.



Re: Response (shoulder surgery) Archive in bracing.

Posted by Steven on September 28, 2003 at 14:38:17:

In Reply to: Re: Response (shoulder surgery) Archive in bracing. posted by Walt Stoll on September 28, 2003 at 06:18:43:

Walt,

I will look up all this stuff today.

In terms of "weekend warrior", I assume you mean someone who plays only a few hours a week, only on the weekend. I'm not quite sure of your meaning with that though.

In terms of stretching, I stretch a ton before and after exercise every day but will look into what you said.

Follow Ups:


Re: Response (shoulder surgery) Archive in bracing.

Posted by Walt Stoll on September 29, 2003 at 06:19:36:

In Reply to: Re: Response (shoulder surgery) Archive in bracing. posted by Steven on September 28, 2003 at 14:37:50:

Yeah, Steve.

This is a well known (among medical circles) syndrome causing many injuries just like you had and have.

Unless physical exertion is repeated at least 3 times a week, the times it is done is much more likely to cause injury. In my opinion, if your docs did not tell you this they were setting you up for exactly what has happened.

Hope this helps.

Walt



Kind of makes no sense

Posted by Steven on September 29, 2003 at 09:06:39:

In Reply to: Re: Response (shoulder surgery) Archive in bracing. posted by Walt Stoll on September 29, 2003 at 06:19:36:

because I did most of my damage weight training and exercising which I do more than 3 times a week. Both my shoulder have tears in them even though the dominant one was made worse by throwing. Both of my knees crack and and have pain too after running and weight training (which I was doing 4 times a week) because of the very high arch in my feet which I do wear orthodics for but it certainly does not cure the problem. The arch is VERY high.



Re: Kind of makes no sense (Indeed?) Archive in arthritis.

Posted by Walt Stoll on September 30, 2003 at 06:58:53:

In Reply to: Kind of makes no sense posted by Steven on September 29, 2003 at 09:06:39:

Thanks, Steven.

With this additional information, it is apparent to me that you have a genetic predisposition to this kind of damage. However, that only makes my suggestions for reversal (at least to prevent progression) more important.

Walt



Re: Kind of makes no sense (Indeed?) Archive in arthritis.

Posted by Steven on September 30, 2003 at 09:04:41:

In Reply to: Re: Kind of makes no sense (Indeed?) Archive in arthritis. posted by Walt Stoll on September 30, 2003 at 06:58:53:

because I played ball all my life and only had sprained ankles, never any arm injuries. I know it is from the weight training. Before, I never stretched or did anything. After my injury, when I learned about it, I properly warmed up, stetched before and after, avoided exercises that put bad pressure on the shoulder joint (behind the neck stuff and others).

It's tough call for me because I know I can't not train and play. Those are the 2 things I really enjoy. If I waited a few years, I'd already be in my 30's and the urge will go down.

I am, however, at least, trying to figure out which SR to use. It's tough since I apparently have SO MANY different things that need fixing. Funny thing is that is has turned me into a ball of worry. Do you think I should stick with the SR right now or try the rolfing and is that expensive because money is a huge problem. Especially if I go with ART treatment from the chiropracter (have you heard of this and/or it's effectiveness?).

Thank you.



Re: Kind of makes no sense (Indeed?) Archive in arthritis.

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 01, 2003 at 07:39:53:

In Reply to: Re: Kind of makes no sense (Indeed?) Archive in arthritis. posted by Steven on September 30, 2003 at 09:04:41:

Thanks, Steven.

I have not heard of ART chiropractic treatments.

If it were me, I would try to find the money for the Rolfing but not stop doing the SR (ask your Rolfer).

You can enhance your effectiveness, no matter what you do, by practicing Alexander Technique OR Feldenkrais daily. See the archives about these techniques.

Walt

Follow Ups:


Re: Kind of makes no sense (Indeed?) Archive in arthritis.

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 01, 2003 at 07:40:06:

In Reply to: Re: Kind of makes no sense (Indeed?) Archive in arthritis. posted by Steven on September 30, 2003 at 09:04:41:

Thanks, Steven.

I have not heard of ART chiropractic treatments.

If it were me, I would try to find the money for the Rolfing but not stop doing the SR (ask your Rolfer).

You can enhance your effectiveness, no matter what you do, by practicing Alexander Technique OR Feldenkrais daily. See the archives about these techniques.

Walt



Re: Kind of makes no sense (Indeed?) Archive in arthritis.

Posted by Steven on October 01, 2003 at 16:53:22:

In Reply to: Re: Kind of makes no sense (Indeed?) Archive in arthritis. posted by Walt Stoll on October 01, 2003 at 07:40:06:

Is the cost very high? I read in the archives that it takes multiple sessions.

Between rolfing, SR 2 X a day, strengthening exercises 2 X a day, and the Alexander/Feldenkrais, plus my cardio exercises to keep in shape, weight training, I don't think I will have time to eat. :)



Re: Kind of makes no sense (Indeed?) Archive in arthritis.

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 02, 2003 at 09:35:28:

In Reply to: Re: Kind of makes no sense (Indeed?) Archive in arthritis. posted by Steven on October 01, 2003 at 16:53:22:

Thanks, Steven.

This is the best investment in time and money that you will ever make.

Can you envision your future if you do not resolve this?

Walt



Re: Kind of makes no sense (Indeed?) Archive in arthritis.

Posted by Steven on October 02, 2003 at 14:41:41:

In Reply to: Re: Kind of makes no sense (Indeed?) Archive in arthritis. posted by Walt Stoll on October 02, 2003 at 09:35:28:

I am envisioning every day because it's pretty bad and getting progressively. I guess I'm just worried that I will spend 6 months doing all this and a decent amount of money and still be in the same spot.

By the way, I asked Meridian Valley about the mineral panel and the price is like $130, a far cry from the 50 for the magnesium one or 75, which is the price you mentioned earlier.

Also, I saw my ortho today (a MUCH better one) and he told me that I either have to have surgery (tear is definate) or do nothing and wing it. I like him because he was upfront and didn't make me see him 10 times before going into this like other MD's have to me.



Re: Kind of makes no sense (Indeed?) Archive in arthritis.

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 03, 2003 at 08:21:39:

In Reply to: Re: Kind of makes no sense (Indeed?) Archive in arthritis. posted by Steven on October 02, 2003 at 14:41:41:

Steven,

The main cost to you is time and effort, not money.

So just get the magnesium. I just said what I would do.

The surgery may be necessary. Certainly the "doc on the spot" would have a better idea than I. However, that does not change the fact that the 6 month wellness will still be needed to prevent recurrance and to maximize the benefits of the surgery.

You are just going to have to decide who to believe.

Walt



I completely understand.,,,

Posted by Steven on October 03, 2003 at 08:40:18:

In Reply to: Re: Kind of makes no sense (Indeed?) Archive in arthritis. posted by Walt Stoll on October 03, 2003 at 08:21:39:

I understand about the stress causing bracing and fully agree with it. Problem is the physical damage is already done. This orthopedic surgeon actually is open to alternative therapies. He has written a book and in it, he lists things like yoga, meditation and even rolfing as things that have helped people.

I was VERY impressed that he was thorough about everything and didn't make me have "checkups" before deciding what to do. I had seen him before and he was the same way, 2 visits and a definitive answer, rather than seeing me a bunch of times for like 2 minutes a piece.

I plan to get the magnesium. I just have to talk my PCP into taking the blood and doing whatever is needed for it to be shipped to those guys.

This surgery talk again has stressed me out in that I couldn't sleep well and I woke up very early with a stomach ache, which went away once I used the bathroom. But the point is that all this thinking about it, hurt me.

It will take about 6 months to "recover" from surgery, if I do recover. I wonder should I do the wellness during that time? I won't be able to obiouvsly exercise except for rehab but I think I can walk on the treadmill like I do now (but not run or jog). Or would it be better to do the 6 month wellness completely before the surgery, in your opinion?

Effort for me is no big deal. Time is only an issue if it takes too long with minimal results. It isn't an issue in that I am not willing to take time to fix things. Money is obviously an issue right now.

Sorry about the rambling. It's been a long night. What am I saying. It's been a long 6 years or so of this. :(

Thank you.



Re: I completely understand.,,,

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 04, 2003 at 08:49:42:

In Reply to: I completely understand.,,, posted by Steven on October 03, 2003 at 08:40:18:

Congratulations, Steven.

Sounds like you have a "keeper" in your doc!

Doing wellness for 6 months prior to surgery would assist with the outcome of the surgery and the postoperative recovery. Doing it after surgery will speed up healing and help prevent recurrence.

Let us know how you do.

Hope this helps.

Walt



Will do

Posted by Steven on October 04, 2003 at 09:05:40:

In Reply to: Re: I completely understand.,,, posted by Walt Stoll on October 04, 2003 at 08:49:42:

I'm just scared to death about the surgery, since it's only been a year since I just had it. Not scared of the surgery itself but rather starting over. Plus, the days of pain and inability to sleep because it's so uncomfortable. Not to mention training to use the arm from scratch again. Felt like a bad dream to go through and now i'm being told i have to again, Bummer.

My thinking has been that I am, in some way, cursed. There is pretty much not one part of me that doesn't happen to have something wrong with it. And I ALWAYS fall into the percentage that things aren't supposed to happen. Allergic reaction to allergy shots (.001 percent), yet it happens to me. 85-95 % success with the surgery I had, not for me. Orthotics should "fix" the arch problem in my feet, not for me. I can list on and on but you might tell me to shoot myself, hehe.

In terms of the SR, I am still lost as to which one to do. The only one that falls uder both the stomach and general anxiety is the progresive relaxation. It's very difficult for me to "try out" all of the ones in the book for weeks because of all these other factors. I just remembered that my old gastro doc (who was very into alternative medicine and only had me take a fiber supplement and acidophilus for my IBS), also told me to check out relaxation tapes. This was years ago. I bought one and tried it for a week and almost felt silly because I didn't feel anything. I remember it had 2 sides, one for progressive and I think the other was autonomic or something? I guess I should do the tape again for 2 weeks? Will I know by then if it is working?

One other question. You mentioned earlier about money not being an issue, rather time and effort. I have noticed that the blood test, the subsequent magnesium injections and perhaps even rolfing, seem to get rather expensive. I have not been working since my surgery and I wont be able to after this one (can't lift a thing and it's in my writing arm so I can't do anything). I'm worried because I read in the archives how SR might not work and that I would need to come back from the edge with rolfing. Sorry, just my anxiousness kicking in again.

Thank you and sorry again for the rant. I seem to be able to rattle these off rather quick.



Re: Will do

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 04, 2003 at 16:56:49:

In Reply to: Will do posted by Steven on October 04, 2003 at 09:05:40:

Thanks, Steven.

The first thing I said to you was that this had to be a genetic susceptibility of sorts. If that is not a "curse" I do nok know what is.

The nice thing is that only 20% of our susceptibilities are genomic (what we were dealt) and 80% are phenomic (what we do with what we have been dealt).

Walt

Walt



Re: Will do

Posted by Steven on October 04, 2003 at 18:38:40:

In Reply to: Re: Will do posted by Walt Stoll on October 04, 2003 at 16:56:49:

I might be out of it but I didn't "get" what you were saying here.



Re: Will do

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 05, 2003 at 08:03:42:

In Reply to: Re: Will do posted by Steven on October 04, 2003 at 18:38:40:

Steve,

What do you know about the human genome project? Do you know the difference between the genome and the phenome?

Walt



Again

Posted by Steven on October 05, 2003 at 09:31:23:

In Reply to: Re: Will do posted by Walt Stoll on October 05, 2003 at 08:03:42:

Not sure. Are you referring to nature vs. nuture?



Re: Again

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 06, 2003 at 06:55:11:

In Reply to: Again posted by Steven on October 05, 2003 at 09:31:23:

Hi, Steve.

In a way. That concept fits in here somewhere.

Walt



I'm lost now

Posted by Steven on October 06, 2003 at 11:28:18:

In Reply to: Re: Again posted by Walt Stoll on October 06, 2003 at 06:55:11:

I think I lost track of the conversation at some point.

I am eager to pretty much try anything but between surgery, buying books, buying the magnesium test, having it done, buying injections, testing with biofeedback, all other costs, I am struggling. I realize my symptoms are many and bad but it's tough to come up with this.

Im making a recording for the progressive relaxation, since it seems to address so many of my symptoms. How long did u say I should do it for before testing? I was reading in the archived and the board about doing/not doing SR at certain times. Not doing it right before sleep I can manage, not doing it before exercising I think I can manage but the food things is tough in the morning. How long would you recommend spacing it out from food and all that other stuff, if needed at all?

Thank you.



Re: I'm lost now

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 07, 2003 at 08:25:29:

In Reply to: I'm lost now posted by Steven on October 06, 2003 at 11:28:18:

Thanks, Steven.

The relationship with food is the least important one.

At two weeks practice is a good time to check the technique with biofeedback.

Walt



Re: I'm lost now

Posted by Steven on October 07, 2003 at 08:45:26:

In Reply to: Re: I'm lost now posted by Walt Stoll on October 07, 2003 at 08:25:29:

I'm ready to try it but some of the techniques in the book, don't seem like they would work for me. For example, the ones where you say "my arm is heavy" and it is supposed to feel that way. I tried it and felt nothing.

In terms of the biofeedback, I am correct to assume that I should buy a machine since I'll probably need to do it more than once to to test things out? I found one online (GSR-2) for like 60 bucks but I have no idea if it is worth it. Reading the archives makes me even more confused as in some places, those are said not to be good and in others, they are said to be good.



Re: I'm lost now

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 08, 2003 at 07:12:26:

In Reply to: Re: I'm lost now posted by Steven on October 07, 2003 at 08:45:26:

Hi, Steven.

You can probably get a GSR-2 for less at Radio Shack. In my experience if you need to use a GSR-2 you could have done it with nothing. The least expensive GSR I would try to use would cost at least $200. See the biofeedack archives.

Walt



That's my point

Posted by Steven on October 08, 2003 at 09:02:36:

In Reply to: Re: I'm lost now posted by Walt Stoll on October 08, 2003 at 07:12:26:

200 dollars is VERY steep. And going to a biofeedback specialist costs a decent amount as well. If I am testing techniques out with biofeedback, I am correct to assume that I would have to go more than once since there is no guarantee a certain technique will work?

Like I said, money is tight (especially if I have surgery and the rehab that has to follow [my insurance won't cover the rehab so it will all be out of pocket]).

Any suggestions here? I want to do it. I have the will, am willing to put in the time, but unless I rob a bank, things are tough. :)



Re: That's my point

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 09, 2003 at 08:12:59:

In Reply to: That's my point posted by Steven on October 08, 2003 at 09:02:36:

Thanks, Steven.

The chances are 85% that the first thing you decide to test will be the right thing. If you are willing to wait 3-6 months to see if you get results, there is no reason for the biofeedback.

There is a market for used machines since most users only need their machine for a month. You might check on ebay and those kinds of internet places. Then when you are done with it, it still will be like new, as it probably was when you got it used, and you can sell it.

Hope this helps.

Walt



Re: That's my point

Posted by Steven on October 09, 2003 at 09:14:04:

In Reply to: Re: That's my point posted by Walt Stoll on October 09, 2003 at 08:12:59:

Let me first say that I thank you from the bottom of my heart for all this help. It's so rare to find people who actually care for one another these days.

I have 3 questions:

1- I've actually never bought anything from ebay or amazon.com before. How would I KNOW the quality of the merchandise?

2- If/when I do have the surgery and am in my sling recovering, is it safe to do progressive relaxation through the pain? Just from reading the book, it just feels like that is my best bet b/c the other things to seem like they would work for me.

3- I ordered your book from Barnes and Nobles like 3 weeks ago but it is taking them forever to get it because they said it was from a small publishing firm. I'm not real big at ordering things online or by phone, which is why I went to them. Does it usually take long to get?

Thanks.



Re: That's my point

Posted by Happygal on October 09, 2003 at 14:14:40:

In Reply to: Re: That's my point posted by Steven on October 09, 2003 at 09:14:04:

Hi Steven,

Don't forget to read the glossary entry for "relaxation response" that tells what it feels like when you're doing the practice correctly. I could tell from reading it that I was doing it right, but I had biofeedback anyway and actually still learned more about my relaxation response from it.

About e-bay, I'm trying to buy one from there. You take your chances with the merchandise, so I never pay very much for anything. I've had good results so far - have bought about 6 different things. One way to know is by reading the feedback about the seller.

A person can do relaxation anywhere, any time, as far as I'm concerned. Okay, not while driving.

Walt can answer the book question.

Best wishes,
Happygal



Re: That's my point

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 10, 2003 at 08:27:01:

In Reply to: Re: That's my point posted by Steven on October 09, 2003 at 09:14:04:

Hi, Steven.

The fastest and least expensive way to get my book is by calling the publisher (850) 747-8669. We send out B&N's order the same week it arrives here--which I will bet is faster than any large publisher.

I never have bought anything on the internet either. You would have to ask them that.

Yes, progressive relaxation would be fine during that time. If you had pain why not use that time to try something else in the workbook?

Walt




Re: That's my point

Posted by Steven on October 10, 2003 at 08:46:40:

In Reply to: Re: That's my point posted by Walt Stoll on October 10, 2003 at 08:27:01:

I thought about calling the publisher but then I would be ordering by phone. Believe me, I'm not some paranoid person or anything but had an ex-girl friend who had some bad experiences with that.

I went to B7 N's a month ago and put in the order. I called last week and said it takes longer with a smaller publication. I'll try them again today, I suppose. If they continue giving me the runaround for another a couple of weeks, I'll call the publisher. I guess I will have to at this point. Do you know of any big change bookstore that might have it stock?

In terms of the SR, I had a question. You say I need to do it at 6 months for all of my problems (let's be honest, I have a whole lot of them) to be cured. Let's say everything is gone, do I stay on SR forever? You mentioned using the biofeedback and then selling it. Does the effectiveness of progressive relaxation fade with time or something?

I would think flexing any area around the arm that is operated on might hurt. Maybe I could just skip that arm in the beginning when it's the most painful. I know I wouldn't be able to do anything the night I get home being all out of it from the anesthesia. Not to mention I can't sleep at all for the month because I remember having to sleep in an upright position (it's the most uncomfortable feeling). You can't sleep normally because it's too painful.

In terms of the other methods, I wasn't sure what else might work except for maybe breathing. I know myself and those methods where I make "suggestions" to myself does not seem like they would work for me. I may be too stubborn perhaps?



Thanks Happygal

Posted by Steven on October 10, 2003 at 08:47:51:

In Reply to: Re: That's my point posted by Happygal on October 09, 2003 at 14:14:40:

I read it yesterday. Some of the relazation response symptoms sound awful scary :)

I checked ebay and I wouldn't even know which one is good.

Follow Ups:


Re: That's my point

Posted by Walt Stoll on October 10, 2003 at 15:27:01:

In Reply to: Re: That's my point posted by Steven on October 10, 2003 at 08:46:40:

Steven,

We have sold more than 5,000 copies by people calling the publisher and have never had one problem. We send orders nearly every week to amazon.com and Barnes & Noble. So, if you feel more comfortable and do not mind the extra cost and delay, go for it.

If you would just take a few hours and get the answers to your current and future SR questions from the archives I would not have to retype it for the 10,000th time.

There are thousands of you out there and only one of me.

Walt



Re: That's my point

Posted by Steven on October 10, 2003 at 15:35:18:

In Reply to: Re: That's my point posted by Walt Stoll on October 10, 2003 at 15:27:01:

The cost (according to Barnes and Noble's) seems about the same. I bought the workbook from there.

I apologize about the questions. I do read the archives but sometimes do get overwhelmed. I have a bit of a concentration problem when it comes to reading a lot. I end up reading things many many times before I get it. The only times that I do not have this problem is if the subject is sports related. I can knock off huge books in a day when that is the case. Odd.

Follow Ups:


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