Coronary Heart Disease Archives

Best diet for cardiovascular disease

[ Coronary Heart Disease Archive ]
[ Main Archives Page ] [ Glossary/Index ]
[ FAQ ] [ Recommended Books ] [ Bulletin Board ]
   Search this site!
 
        

Best diet for cardiovascular disease

Posted by CC on May 21, 2002 at 19:23:25:

I have searched the archives but don't come up with a definitive answer. What do you consider the best kind of diet for CVD? I have read mixed opinions from the Dean Ornish(grains, veg. fruits,etc.) to ATkins (high protein). I have a friend whose husband suffered a heart attack and the diet the doctors have recommended is so bland and boring that he is having difficulty staying on it. Any suggestions will be appreciated.



Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease

Posted by Helping You on May 21, 2002 at 20:26:22:

In Reply to: Best diet for cardiovascular disease posted by CC on May 21, 2002 at 19:23:25:

First, it should be noted that many doctors will site that a diet low in saturated fat and cholesterol will lower serum cholesterol levels which is what many doctors recommend for the treatment of CVD. However, there is absolutely NO correlation with cholesterol level and CVD. So, if cholesterol isn't the culprit, why take the time to try and lower it!

Having said that, my opinion, is that the diet must be VARIED to include vegetables, fruits, meats, grains, legumes, nuts, seeds, lacto-fermented foods, dairy, healthy fats and oils, certain fish, condiments, herbs, teas, broths, stocks, and soups. This type of diet can NEVER get boring as there are so many combinations to choose from. The KEY to helping CVD and other degenerative diseases resides in the following ideas:

1. The QUALITY of the food must be considered
2. The PREPARATION techniques must be considered
3. The COOKING METHOD must be considered and a balance must be achieved between cooked, raw and fermented foods.

For example, Atkins says that we can eat steak with the fat on it. Well, that's great but if that steak comes from a conventionally-raised cow, then the food will be loaded with hormones, antibiotics and vaccines which will reap havoc in the body. Also, the saturated fat will be high, the omega 3 content will be low, and the omega 6 content will be exaggerated. However, if we use ORGANIC GRASS-FED BEEF, we get healthy meat, lower saturated fat content, high omega 3 content, high CLA content, and nutrients that protect the heart such as L-carnitine, Coenzyme Q10 and magnesium (these nutrients are just as high in conventionally-raised beef but that's still not a good enough reason to eat it often).

So, what I am trying to say is, QUALITY and PREPARATION are everything in the diet. Dairy should be raw and un-heated, meats should be grass-fed, poultry should be free-range, eggs should be DHA-enhanced from free-range hens, oils should be cold-pressed and preserved with natural vitamin E, vegetbles should be steamed and eaten with liberal quantities of raw butter or olive oil, and so on.

Just as important as the quality of foods we choose to eat is the type of food that we should NOT eat. If someone you know has CVD, he/she should not eat refined foods of ANY kind. Salad dressings, Mayonnaise, mustard, ketchup, and sauces that give our foods flavor should be used Judiciously but the ingredients should be RAW and from high-quality sources and NOT bought by the bottle in stores (some brands are good though). If you make these yourself, you will be sure that you will be getting high-quality nutrients that will aid your battle against CVD. Ther was a study done on 250 animals recently. The researchers took away the sense of taste from one group of animals and gave them a normal diet. The other group received the same diet but kept their taste buds. ALL of the animals of the taste-less diet died within weeks of the experiment. It appears as though TASTE is crucial to the digestion of nutrients and their absorption. These bland diets we are told to eat for many conditions are at best, self-destructive. The Nourishing Traditions is the best diet source that I know of. I have read the book 4 or 5 times now and I read certain parts of it almost daily just to keep things fresh in my mind. Knowing is important but UNDERSTANDING and APPLYING is another story.

As far as supplements go, extra Coenzyme Q10 is often helpful at doses of 30mg to 300mg per day. L-carnitine is helpful as is a balance between calcium and magnesium. Chelation can remove plaque from the arteries and avoiding refined vegetbale oils and sugar will ensure that new deposits are not readily forming. Vitamin C and L-proline protect the structures of the vessels which can weaken in a vitamin C deficiency. Deposits often happen in places of WEAKNESS in the body. Strengthen the collagen system of the body and nothing can deposit there. In general, that's my take on CVD. I don't believe in this no-fat nonsense or even low-fat. Fat (healthy fats) does not cause CVD and neither does cholesterol. It never did and it never will. When people char their meats, this can lead to cancer. If people would slow-roast their meats, eat them rare, or even raw from time to time, red-meat would not get branded the evil food". Same goes for other traditional foods as well. The book says it all

-HY

Follow Ups:


Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease (Archive in coronary.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on May 22, 2002 at 12:41:28:

In Reply to: Best diet for cardiovascular disease posted by CC on May 21, 2002 at 19:23:25:

Hi, CC.

90% of each group of persons with end-stage coronary artery disease, who have been recommended to have bypass surgery, are symptom free within a month of following the Pritikin Diet and exercise plan. The only reason I can see that every doctor is not recommending this program is because Pritikin was not an MD and so was in competition with the "monopoly".

Go to your lending library and find the section of books about Pritikin.

Let us know how he does. This has been documented on "60 Minutes" twice within the past 10 years.

Walt

Follow Ups:


Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease

Posted by Shrinivas on May 22, 2002 at 13:58:22:

In Reply to: Best diet for cardiovascular disease posted by CC on May 21, 2002 at 19:23:25:

To Helping You:

Don't post nonsense like there is NO correlation between cholestrol levels and CVD. It is one of the best documented facts that high cholestrol levels are correlated with Higher risk of Coronary artery disease. CVD is a general term of which Coronary Artery disease is one. There are hundreds of studies which show the relationship between high Cholesterol and CA disease.

You are not helping anyone by posting such junk!




Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease

Posted by Donna E. on May 22, 2002 at 14:12:55:

In Reply to: Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease posted by Shrinivas on May 22, 2002 at 13:58:22:

I am struggling with diet issues right now. Could you possibly site some of those documented facts and the studies to back them up?

In my investigations, I am finding that there is no conclusive evidence that high cholestrol levels are correlated with Higher risk of Coronary artery disease.



Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease

Posted by Shrinivas on May 22, 2002 at 15:34:05:

In Reply to: Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease posted by Donna E. on May 22, 2002 at 14:12:55:


One of the most well known, largest and longest trial of its kind is the Framingham Heart Study conducted on thousands of patients with a follow up over decades. The results are clear. It does show a direct relationship between High serum cholesterol and Coronary Heart Disease.

Dietary modifications are another thing. Some people can eat a lot of highly saturated fat foods and yet have low serum cholesterols while others cannot. It is for those who have high serum cholesterol that needs to control their saturated fat intake. In some cases it does not work very well.

Cholesterol itself is not a bad thing, it is an essential component that body manufactures to repair. If excess LDL is circulating in the blood, the cause needs to be investigated. Not much is clear in why this is the case. One theory is stress. Stress creates a state of chronic dehydration in the body at the cellular level which makes the blood more acidic. The acidic blood cause tiny tears in the coronary artery since it receives oxygenated blood directly from the lungs where even more dehydration of the blood takes place. The cholesterol is produced to repair these small tears. As the process continues to happen, more and more LDL is produced. Also, the LDL produced is not recycled in the liver since some people do not have the receptors on the liver to process LDL and the circulating LDL wreacks havoc in the body.

Eventhough most of the LDL is produced endogenously in the body and only a little comes from the diet, if you have a problem with recycling LDL in the liver, eating a high saturated fat diet only worsens the problem. A suggested solution is Eat a low fat diet and drink PLENTY of water during the day. Ofcourse, other sensible things like Excercise regularly and don't smoke.




Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease

Posted by Donna E. on May 22, 2002 at 17:13:33:

In Reply to: Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease posted by Shrinivas on May 22, 2002 at 15:34:05:

I read about the Framingham study and after 40 years the director of that study admitted that "In Framingham, MA, the more saturated fat one ate, the more cholesterol one ate, the more calories one ate, the lower the person's serum cholesterol..we found that the people who ate the most cholesterol, ate the most saturated fat, ate the most calories, weighed the least and were the most physically active." What that study showed was that "those who weighed more and had abnormally high blood cholesterol levels are slightly more at risk for future heart disease; but weight gain and cholesterol levels had an inverse correlation with fat and cholesterol intake in the diet."

I took the above from research on the Framingham Study. From the majority of your post it seems that we should be concerned about the acidity of our blood causing the cholesterol - not dietary fat. I also read that "elevated triglycerides in the blood have been positively linked to proneness to heart disease. The triglycerides are made in the liver from any excess sugars that have not been used for energy. The source of these excess sugars is any food containing carbohydrates, particularly refined sugar and white flour."

Can you tell me where exactly in the Framingham study it shows a direct correlation, because the above information says there was an inverse correlation? I am so tired of conflicting information all of the time. It makes my head spin.

How do you get past all this to make a really informed, healthy decision?



Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease

Posted by Shrinivas on May 22, 2002 at 17:30:38:

In Reply to: Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease posted by Donna E. on May 22, 2002 at 17:13:33:


There is no correlation between increased saturated fat intake and Coronary Heart Disease but there is a strong correlation between High Serum Cholesterol and CHD. It is in the study. I will try to find you some web link you can look at. It is not just the Framingham study which shows this relationship there are really hundreds of good studies out there that makes this clear. But, Cholesterol is not the ONLY factor for CHD, there are many others.

There is no inconsistency because some people can eat high fat diet and have low cholesterol and many other cannot do that. It is in the body's ability to process the fat and cholesterol. Also it is true that diet contributes only a small percentage of serum cholesterol. But like I said earlier, those who have high serum cholesterol should really watch their saturated fat and cholesterol intake. This is because they don't process cholesterol efficiently.

If you have high cholesterol watch your diet. If it is low and you already eat a high fat diet, then don't worry too much. In general limiting your fat intake is a good thing.



Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease

Posted by R. on May 22, 2002 at 18:23:22:

In Reply to: Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease posted by Shrinivas on May 22, 2002 at 17:30:38:

"...there is a strong correlation between High Serum Cholesterol and CHD."

Uffe Ravnskov, MD, PhD strongly disagrees with that. Visit http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm for more information. Myth #2 item specifically addresses this issue. Here's a quote: "A high blood cholesterol is said to promote atherosclerosis and thus also coronary heart disease. But many studies have shown that people whose blood cholesterol is low become just as atherosclerotic as people whose cholesterol is high"

He addresses horrible flaws of the Framingham study. One must constantly be aware of a very real possibility to design and/or conduct a study and/or interpret or falsify results in such a way that would lead to conclusions you want. I've done that at school and university myself.

"In general limiting your fat intake is a good thing."

No, it's not. It is a good idea to limit polyunsaturated and artificial trans fatty acids.



Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease

Posted by Raisa on May 22, 2002 at 20:09:16:

In Reply to: Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease posted by R. on May 22, 2002 at 18:23:22:

Hi - I can attest to that fact... I have very high HDL cholesterol and normal cholesterol levels - yet I have symptoms of atherosclerosis (calcification of the aorta, hypertension), though no doctor has said I have it. They are satisfied that my cholesterol is within normal limits.
However, I know that my father, grandfather and uncle died of CHD, so that I am not fooled and am practicing Wellness, as Dr. Stoll has suggested. They didn't measure cholesterol levels when my relatives were living and didn't even consider blood pressure levels above l40/90 to be high or moderately high; so I don't know what my father's blood pressure was. All of them smoked either cigarettes, cigars, or a pipe, so in that way they certainly match the statistics! My dad had angina pectoris for years. Just wanted to add my 2 cents. Raisa



Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease

Posted by R. on May 23, 2002 at 06:49:34:

In Reply to: Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease posted by Raisa on May 22, 2002 at 20:09:16:

According to Dr. Rosedale and Dr. Mercola, lowering simple dietary carbohydrates and starches helps a lot and fast: http://www.mercola.com/2001/jul/14/insulin.htm.



Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease

Posted by Raisa on May 23, 2002 at 10:11:15:

In Reply to: Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease posted by R. on May 23, 2002 at 06:49:34:

Thanks very much for posting that link, R - Everything Dr. Mercola says makes a lot of sense to me.
I do follow a low-sugar and low-carbohydrate diet now, so perhaps my arteries are improving. I hope so. Raisa



Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease

Posted by Shrinivas on May 23, 2002 at 10:43:43:

In Reply to: Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease posted by Raisa on May 23, 2002 at 10:11:15:


People like to believe what they like to hear. Many of you perhaps like a high saturated fat diet and like to hear that it is good for you. Unfortunately, it flies in the face of thousands of well done studies.

I am still amazed that all it takes is for some so-called experts to claim that a high fat, low-carbohydrate diet is good for your heart and so many believe it. It is just because they like to believe it. I am sorry to say that just because you may like does not make it true.

The truth is a bitter pill to swallow.





Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease

Posted by Donna E. on May 23, 2002 at 11:54:29:

In Reply to: Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease posted by Shrinivas on May 23, 2002 at 10:43:43:

I am not a fanatical meat eater. I don't eat beef at all anymore and rarely eat chicken - maybe once per month. I eat mostly fish and that is only about once every two weeks. What is happening with me is that in my quest for wellness, I am investigating what truly is proven to be a healthy diet. I would actually prefer to be a vegetarian for emotional reasons - and in modern times and processing - health reasons, but I am not convinced vegetarianism is the healthiest diet.

I am trying to sort out all of the conflicting information and get to the truth. The thing about studies is I rarely trust any of them no matter which way they swing. For me to buy into something, I have to have all the facts and read what the conclusions were and how they were arrived at.

A lot of studies are paid for by companies that have a vested interest in the outcome and do everything they can to make sure the outcome is what they want - I know because I currently work at a university that receives millions of dollars in grants for all kinds of things. There are very strict rules you have to follow or the grant money will be pulled. You have to report often and in detail of how you are running the study and which way it is going. If the grantor doesn't like the way it is going, they can end the study and pull the rest of the money. People cave into that, especially at the universities where the money is needed/wanted the most. In my opinion, those "granted" studies are almost always flawed. You rarely get an impartial grantor.

You sound educated and familiar with thousands of studies so if there is anyway you could cite some of those well documented studies for me off the top of your head, I would love to investigate them. Did you really investigate those studies carefully to find out how they were done and what the true outcomes were? I am also trying to find everything I can myself.

Follow Ups:


Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease

Posted by Raisa on May 23, 2002 at 13:16:29:

In Reply to: Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease posted by Shrinivas on May 23, 2002 at 10:43:43:

Hi - I just want to be sure that it was clearly understood that I do not eat (purposely) fatty foods and do especially try to avoid trans-fatty acids. I do use olive oil and some butter. And I am not saying that I definitely believe that high cholesterol has nothing to do with heart disease - it very well may be one cause. All I know is that I have low triglycerides and high HDL and my total cholesterol is 186 and always has been like that. But, I still have a densely calcified aorta and poor circulation (but have not been told that I have CVD). As I said, my father, grandfather and uncle had athersclerosis and certainly could have had high cholesterol --they didn't test cholesterol in those days and thought that blood pressure went up with age.
Raisa

Follow Ups:


Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease

Posted by R. on May 23, 2002 at 16:06:35:

In Reply to: Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease posted by Shrinivas on May 23, 2002 at 10:43:43:

I provided a source of research. One that exposes very serious flaws of the ONLY study that supported your opinion. And what did you provide? Some mumbo-jumbo about our likes and some unspecified thousands of studies?? The same could be said to you -- you ignore studies that invalidate your statements. I am also amazed that all it takes is for some so-called experts to claim that a high fat, low-carbohydrate diet is bad for your heart and so many believe it. Yep, the truth is a bitter pill to swallow. So I guess you will keep ignoring epidemiological and clinical data, just to defend your "fort". Walt would mention Tolstoy's syndrome here.

By the way, you really remind me someone I know with "lots of training and experience"... and lots of arrogance, I must add.



Correction: meant to say "only study YOU CITED that supported your opinion." nmi

Posted by R. on May 23, 2002 at 16:09:16:

In Reply to: Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease posted by R. on May 23, 2002 at 16:06:35:


Follow Ups:


Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease

Posted by Shrinivas on May 23, 2002 at 21:34:46:

In Reply to: Re: Best diet for cardiovascular disease posted by R. on May 23, 2002 at 16:06:35:

I just name Framingham studies from the top of my head. You want more. OK, look below at some of the well-known ones. I don't want to take up a lot of Dr. Stoll's bandwidth. Honestly, there are literally thousands of studies which show the link. Many of them were not even sponsored by the drug companies.

All studies have their flaws, but if some conclusion stares in your face, study after study after study, you need to pay some attention. Also, there will always be anecdotal exeptions to the results. But the general conclusion about high cholesterol and heart disease risk is undeniable. People said the same thing about smoking and cancer just a few short years ago.


Epedimiology and angiographic studies of hypercholesterolemia and atherosclerosis

1930- Relation between and elevated serum cholesterol level and atherosclerosis was first described by Muller et al

- excessive prevalence of premature coronary artery disease and MI among hereditary Xanthomatosis

1971- Kannel and coworkers confirmed these and strong direct correlation between the total cholesterol level and the development of ischemic heart disease in more than 5000 subjects in the Framingham heart studies

1986- MRFIT involved studies of 400000 men and confirmed unequivocal relation between base-line serum cholesterol levels and mortality from cardiovascular disease and increase risk with cholesterol as low as 4.68mmol per litre

Later epidimiology studies found similar correlation in young men, women, blacks and elderly as well as those already got CHD.

1987- EAS ( European Atherosclerosis Society) and National Institue concluded that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate a casual relation between hypercholesterolaemia with CHD.

CHOLESTEROL REDUCTION AND CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE

PRIMARY PREVENTION TRIAL

1984- Lipid Research clinics coronary Primary Prevention Trial includes 3806 middle-age men who recieved dietary midification and cholestyramine or dietary modification and placebo

- combination gp. reduced TC =11.8% and LDLchol= 18.9%

- placebo gp. reduced TC=5% and LDLchol = 8.6%

- 19% reduction in non-fatal MI and 24% reduction in cardiovascular Mortality

1988- Helsinki Heart Study includes 4081 men assigned randomly to gemfibrozil or placebo

- 10% reduction in TC and 11% reduction in LDL chol. and 11% inc. in HDL

- 34% reduction in combined death from cardiac disease, nonfatal and fatal MI

- inc. in HDL chol was the strongest predictor of a reduction in CVS death

SECONDARY PREVENTION TRIALS

1988- Stockholm Ischaemic Heart Disease Secondary Prevention Study recruits survivors from MI and assigned randomly to combination of clofibrate and nicotinic acid or clofibrate with placebo

- 13% reduction in TC and 36 % reduction in mortality from CHD

1990- Program on the Surgical control of Hyperlipidemias assigned post MI patients to receive partial ileal bypass surgery plus diet of diet alone
- 23% reduction in total cholesterol

- 27% fewer CVS death and 35% fewer cardiac events

1994- Scandinavian Simvastatin Survival Study ( 4S )

- recruits 4444 patients with angina or previous MI

- assigned to treatment with simvastatin or placebo

Metaanalysis by Yusuf and colleahues evaluated effect of cholesterol reduction on major cardiacoutcomes in 22 primary and secondary prevention trials.

these investigators calculated that 10% reduction in serum cholesterol resulted in a 20% reduction in mortality from cardiac disease and 17% reduction in MI.

ANGIOGRAPHIC STUDIES OF CHOLESTEROL REDUCTION

1984- National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute Type II Coronary Intervention Study

- 116 men with inc LDL chol assigned to treatment with diet plus cholestyramine or dietary modification plus placebo

- Coronary Angiogram performed before and five years after

treatment
- 17% reduction in TC in treatment gp. and 1% in placebo gp.

- but actual proportion of lesions that progressed was similar in both groups

Many subsequent studies only showed minimal regression of stenosis after a period of treatment with lipid lowering drugs and this minimal regression is unlikely to be able to explain the significant reduction in cardiac events in both primary and secondary prevention trials.

Hypercholesterolemia, Plaque Rupture and Lesion Activation

Falk, Fuster et al, have developed the concept of lesion 'activation' in quiescent atherosclerotic plaque which becomes susceptible to undergo rupture and thrombosis precipitating MI and unstable angina. Cholesterol reduction may decrease incidence of lesion activation..

1980- DeWood and colleagues studies 79 patients with AMI undergoing catheterization and coronary bypass surgery.

- 59 pts. had angiograhic evidence of coronary thrombosis

-other studies suggested that lipid-laden plaques are most likely to rupture when exposed to inc. shear rate

- progressive accumulation of lipids may destabilize plaques and make it more prone to rupture

- in animal studies Administration of HDL chol results in a

significant decrease in the formation of atherosclerotic, lipid-laden lesions and a reduction in the size of preexisting lesions.

Hypercholesterolemia, Atherosclerosis and Endothelial Dysfunction

Acetylcholine caused dilatation of angiographically normal coronary arteries and paradoxical constriction of arteries with early or advance atherosclerotic lesions.

Studies showed that an impairement of endothelium-dependent dilatation contributes to the pathogenesis of myocardial ishaemia in pts with stable CHD

Endothelial vasomotor dysfunction also implicated in the pathogenesis of unstable coronary syndromes in which platelet aggregation and thrombin formation have a more prominent role

Okumura and colleagues- demonstrate that response of infusion of acetylcholine was more impaired in infarct-related arteries than in other arteries with similar stenoses.

Studies of Cholesterol Reduction and Endothelial Function

Egashira and coworkers- examined the effect of treatment with Pravastatin on endothelial vasomotor function in pts with hypercholesterolemia undergoing angiography

- 31% reduction in TC

- 80% reduction in the constrictor response with acetycholine

Treaure and colleagues studies - got similar conclusion by using lavostatin

Anderson and colleagues- recent evidence suggests that inc. oxidative

stress is a mechanism of endothial dysfunction in hypercholesterolemia

- pts randomly assigned to a lipid lowering diet, lovastatin and cholestyramine, or lovastatin and probucol (antioxidant)

- greater improvement in endothelial vasomotor dysfunction in the last gp,. raised the possibility of addition of an antioxidant increases the beneficial effect of lipid lowering drugs.



Follow Ups:


[ Coronary Heart Disease Archive ]
[ Main Archives Page ] [ Glossary/Index ]
[ FAQ ] [ Recommended Books ] [ Bulletin Board ]
   Search this site!