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I never knew what a fomite was until yesterday. A co-worker suggested coming to your board Dr. Stoll and see what I could find. I did that obviously and also checked it out on the web. My friend is like another Michael Jackson with the mask thing. She is definately phobic of germs. I tried to tell her in order to keep germs away she needs to be subjected to them so her body gets used to them. The reason for all this is we went grocery shopping together yesterday. First time in months. I knew she had a germ phobia but not this bad. Anyhoo, she wore her gloves the entire time. When we got back to her immaculate home, she made us lunch. Even after removing her gloves she scoured her hands. Yes I did wash my hands too but not to the extent {at least 60 seconds}of what she did. So as I sat at her counter watching her prepare tuna sandwiches and sliced tomatoes/cucumbers, I was taken aback. She washed the tomato she had just bought not once but twice, and used antibacterial cleaner and hot water. Then rinsed it off with cold and wiped it dry with 2 paper towels. Isn't this going above and beyond cleanliness? yes I wash tomatoes under water and wipe them dry, but with antibacterial hand cleaner? I had to question this. I said, why are you doing that? She said do you have any idea how many people are ouching these things? People who have horrible hygiene habits, or who picked there nose before coming into the store, she rattled off an entire list, sorry I asked. Then she mention fomite. I said what on earth is that? She said didn't you learn them in school? I told her I didn't recall and that was 30 years ago. So she explained to me that they are little creatures? that can carry germs. I thought to myselk, ok. So when I got home I looked up this word and she was right. But I read they hang out on clothes, doorknobs, children's toys, surfaces, burshes etc.. Would they actually live say on tomatoes, grapes, apples, oranges out in the open in the market. Are they easily washed off? I am truly fascinated by this new word I have learned. No wonder why colds and other things are passed on. My question is can they hang on to tomatoes, vegetables, fruits et.? Is she right to go to such lengths to cleanse these types of food? She claims these fomites can live for days on foods. I didnt read anything like that. Can someone who knows about this maybe give me some insight and maybe if she is going to extremes I can email your answers to her. Does the doctor that runs this board answer too?
In Reply to: Fomites and Germs and my Friend posted by Sea Lady [20.497] on February 18, 2005 at 10:22:34:
I don't know much about fomites or dust or dead skin mites for that matter. They are probably everywhere but I can't see them, just like bacteria, so I don't get too crazy since I doubt Very seriously we can get rid of them, and how do you avoid them ? Did you friend touch the tomatoe, and then turn on the faucet before washing both, and then turn it off, so spreading something to that ? Maybe she has a single lever one and used the back of her hand, or turned it on with the gloves on or some other sequence. I can see being cautious, but can we really avoid that much, and how much does anything affect us ?
I wash before handling foods but once in a while I don't, and I never had a problem that I know of. I don't like the feeling of anything on my hands, so if I handle something that gets on them, I like to wash them, so I don't spread it to something I don't want it to. I don't mean germs, but more like oils or dirt, since Then I'll have to clean that, so I save myself the extra work, but my hands feel better.
I have a friend who saw a piece about germs in the kitchen, so now they Spray everything with bleach. I doubt it will get everything, or for that long, and what about breathing the fumes doing damage. I think it is a phobia, and they are hard to break, and what about the Constant worry these people have.
Does your friend handle money or a credit card and give it to someone who did to pay for things? I hate the Damp bills in the summertime. but won't turn them down.))
In Reply to: Fomites and Germs and my Friend posted by Sea Lady [20.497] on February 18, 2005 at 10:22:34:
Hi Sea Lady,
Here is a link which shows various transmisson routes for various conditions
People who want to worry will find things to worry about.
If you do a google on the word "formites" you will se another article about formites being a possible infectious agent in the vomitus of those with the Norwalk Virus.
Does your friend go on ocean cruises?
Ron
In Reply to: Fomites and Germs and my Friend posted by Sea Lady [20.497] on February 18, 2005 at 10:22:34:
No she has never been on a cruise. A fomite in the vomitus of an ill person? How would the fomite reach another person in that respect?
In Reply to: Fomites and Germs and my Friend posted by Sea Lady [20.497] on February 18, 2005 at 10:22:34:
Hi Sea Lady:
Every few months this board gets the same question inquiring about fomites. Are you sure you looked up the meaning of the word?
Fomites are surfaces which carry germs. Fomites are NOT the germs themselves, but the carriers of germs. Your clothes, for example, can be fomites.
In Reply to: Re: Fomites and Germs and my Friend posted by Ron [205.1671] on February 18, 2005 at 10:48:58:
What is a Foamite?...
"Fomites
A fomite is defined as an inanimate object that serves to transmit an infectious agent from person to person.
www.whale.to/a/fomites.html "
(Basically, it is a little balloon of moisture which can carry
an infectious agent. These are far less likely to be present in a dry climate and less common in sparsely populated areas.)
In Reply to: Fomites and Germs and my Friend posted by Sea Lady [20.497] on February 18, 2005 at 10:22:34:
Hi, Sea.
Fomites do not have to be living. A pencil can be a fomite. A fomite is something that can transfer dirt, chemicals, germs, viruses, parasites, etc. from one place to another (actively or passively).
We are all soaked with environmental germa and chemicals 24 hours a day. That is how we live in this world. Our immunity depends upon this minute by minute exposure.
You probably should not tell your friend this but 9 out of 10 of the cells in our bodies are not human, they are living bacteria, spirochetes, parasites, fungi, etc. Even the human cells are not totally human. The mitochondria are intracellular parasites that we cannot live without.
Therefore, humans are simply a cooperative colony of living things only 10th of which are human.
Compulsively washing stuff, as you are describing, is a mental illness and does no good at all.
Hope this helps.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Fomites and Germs and my Friend posted by Sea Lady [1914.23] on February 18, 2005 at 11:20:42:
Hi Sea Lady,
The staff which cleans the room may also have some duties in the kitchen. Some may even be carriers are more immune and don't become visibly ill.
How well was the room cleaned? Were all bathroom surfaces disinfected? Light switches are often missed when a room
is made up. Even doorknobs can be neglected.
The bottom side of foodtrays may only get a simple wipe instead of a thorough scrubbing.
Fans and filters may also be carriers of droplet contamination. They are often only serviced on scheduled times when in port.
An outbreak of travellers with Norwalk will usually get the ship's maintenance done sooner and more thouroughly when it is confined to port.
I guess you will be avoiding cruises now too?
Howard Hughes suffered this way when he was older. Of course, he had problems for quite a while. Money was not one of them.
Ron
In Reply to: Re: Fomites and Germs and my Friend (Archive.) posted by Walt Stoll [9.1465] on February 19, 2005 at 07:46:23:
Dr. Stoll, are you saying washing things like hands, fruits and veggies are a waste of time and do no good?
In Reply to: Fomites and Germs and my Friend posted by Sea Lady [20.497] on February 18, 2005 at 10:22:34:
I defend the lady this flu season and Thank Her for her care and concern in that at least she will not be transmitting the flu to me this year.....
I was my veggies with soap. The stor I worked for sprayed EVERYTHING with a solution of veggi oil and diluted food grade pesticide before putting it out for sale to keep the fruit flies and other critters at bay.. you better believe I willl wash it twice.. and as for SHOPPING.. eggadssss I carry my wet wiped with me during the flu season and I wipe the cart handle and I will wipe my hands several times during the shop.. as your friend said.."do you know how may people picked up that can to read the lable before you did?".. and as a sufferer of constant rashes and Hives.. I wish my house were a whle lot cleaner, but alas I am to lazy to vacuuum and sweep more than every two weeks or so..
In Reply to: Re: Fomites and Germs and my Friend (Archive.) posted by Terry [1914.23] on February 19, 2005 at 10:33:37:
Yes, Terry.
Pertty much. Most contaminants are inside the food anyhow.
External washing can do no harm but does little good.
By far the most effective way to protect yourself is by working on your immunity (wellness).
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Fomites and Germs and my Friend (Archive.) posted by Terry [1914.23] on February 19, 2005 at 10:33:37:
Humans aren't much different from animals, and animals live without washing fine (provided that they get adequate nutrition).
In Reply to: Re: Fomites and Germs and my Friend posted by Penny [483.4] on February 19, 2005 at 19:55:47:
Removing chemicals is the only good reason for washing that I see.
Worrying about germs that you described is probably the main contributing factor in your rashes and hives. God, I wish people were more sensible!
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