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Will someone please look over these ingredients in Serenitol?

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Will someone please look over these ingredients in Serenitol?

Posted by Jim on July 09, 2003 at 13:09:18:

I'd appreciate it if someone would look over these ingredients before I start taking this medicine I found online at serenitol.com. It supposedly works wonders in treating TMJ: Inositol, Valerian Root, Gamma Amino Butyric Acid, Kava Kava, Lupulin, Glutamic Acid, Magnesium, Niacinamide, Passion Flower, Thiamine HCl and 5-Hydroxy Tryptophan. They say just to take one after dinner each night and from the website it really is interesting. Thanks for anyone's insight as to whether it's safe or not. It also says it is a S.A.S.I. inhibitor and was wondering if anyone knew what it meant. Thank you soooo much because I really would like to give this a shot but am a little scared!



Re: Will someone please look over these ingredients in Serenitol?

Posted by Sue on July 09, 2003 at 13:23:23:

In Reply to: Will someone please look over these ingredients in Serenitol? posted by Jim on July 09, 2003 at 13:09:18:

Looks fine to me - most of the ingredients are specifically to help you relax, boost the serotonin in your brain etc. Lupulin is the only one I'm not familiar with. But SR is a lot cheaper!!

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Red flag, kava kava

Posted by Eliza on July 09, 2003 at 20:03:02:

In Reply to: Will someone please look over these ingredients in Serenitol? posted by Jim on July 09, 2003 at 13:09:18:

That herb is associated with many cases of liver failure resulting in liver transplant. I'd not use it.



Re: Red flag, kava kava

Posted by thessa on July 10, 2003 at 03:09:03:

In Reply to: Red flag, kava kava posted by Eliza on July 09, 2003 at 20:03:02:

Eliza, are you an herbalist with direct experience using kava kava? Do you know anything more about the herb than what you have read regarding its "association" with liver failure?
My guess is no.
I would suggest that herbs are meant to be used in a certain manner, and that is why the science and art of herbalism exists. Red flagging herbs that you know minimal, one sided information about can be unnecessarily alarming to even less informed individuals. The result is panicked legislation against plants that have amazing healing properties when used correctly.

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Re: Red flag, kava kava

Posted by Sue on July 10, 2003 at 06:11:04:

In Reply to: Red flag, kava kava posted by Eliza on July 09, 2003 at 20:03:02:

I would be really interested to know where the 'liver failure' information regarding kava kava came from. I'll bet it can be traced back to a pharmaceutical company. After all, indigenous cultures have been using this stuff safely for millenia, but it would be bad for drug company profits if everyone discovered how helpful it is.



Here you go

Posted by Eliza on July 10, 2003 at 17:28:23:

In Reply to: Re: Red flag, kava kava posted by Sue on July 10, 2003 at 06:11:04:

Decide for yourself.



Re: Red flag, kava kava

Posted by Matylda on July 10, 2003 at 19:05:30:

In Reply to: Red flag, kava kava posted by Eliza on July 09, 2003 at 20:03:02:

It looks strange. I read the link. I can not imagine what for 14 years old took it. I think people don't recognize the need of a liver cleanse. Nothing can change the fact of increasing air, water and food polution. I know people who drink kava tea for few years, and they are ok. I always question seperating elements of a plant for usage, especially as a pill form. It seems to work the best in natural form.
Matylda

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Re: Red flag, kava kava; the flag is bogus

Posted by R. on July 11, 2003 at 01:52:53:

In Reply to: Red flag, kava kava posted by Eliza on July 09, 2003 at 20:03:02:

Many as in 11 (according to your source)? Gee! 11 is a really large number! LOL

I would estimate that millions of people take products containing kava-kava or take it by itself. Out of that number 11 is nothing. Combine that with weakness of presented evidence that kava-kava caused liver problems, and you get nothing for a ground for worry.

In case 1 in your document, the patient also took rabeprazole, which comes with a warning for those with liver diseases. And in case 2, the patient reported taking ibuprofen, which is known to be able to cause liver damage. Another red flag in this case: the girl was said to be previously healthy, yet, she she used ibuprofen. Did she do that for fun or for a health problem? So, was she dumb or unhealthy?

Notice the title of the document " Hepatic Toxicity Possibly Associated with Kava-Containing Products".

The evidence presented is SO weak, that starting to worry about it and changing your behavior is insensible.

Interestingly, I searched for [ibuprofen liver damage] on CDC's site but found no warning. Could somebody else confirm this?



Re: Here you go

Posted by thessa on July 11, 2003 at 02:18:01:

In Reply to: Here you go posted by Eliza on July 10, 2003 at 17:28:23:

For one who is going to "decide for oneself" on the issue, might I suggest researching kava's history as a food, the recent history of increased liver stress in the human population and a background of liver function, the politics surrounding the current herbal legislation, kava's use in herbalism AND as a pharmaceutical past and present (this includes in what form kava is best taken, for how long, and results of use) and peer reveiwed scientific research. This would include herbalists who have clinical experience using kava.

Here's a quote from the article I just posted on the board
A case in point: the German kava debacle, leading to its banning in many countries without any published details on the adverse effect cases whatsoever. In fact, these oh-so-dangerous adverse effects were mostly due to meds taken together with or even instead of kava, or due to pharmaceutical-type kava products (50+ % kavalactones, extracted with acetone? That's not a herb, that's a med!).
Adverse effects from kava, the herb, extracted at 1:2 in 95 % ethanol are very rare. In fact, I'd suggest the use of education (don't extract insanely high amounts of "active constituents", and don't use toxic solvents) and common sense (stop using kava if you get the telltale scaly skin) instead of legislation, to help clear up the rather few (and quite benign) adverse effects from kava, the herb.
Kava, Piper methysticum, is a direct competitor to Paxil and other anti-anxiety agents. It's cheap, can't be patented, and has next to no side effects. Oops.

And a few more links
http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/faqs/medi-2-10-kava.html
http://askbillsardi.com/sdm.asp?pg=news&specific=47




Re: Here you go

Posted by R. on July 11, 2003 at 02:57:19:

In Reply to: Re: Here you go posted by thessa on July 11, 2003 at 02:18:01:

Thessa, do you know of another herb with similar qualities but which is local to the USA or other non-tropical areas?



Re: Red flag, kava kava; the flag is bogus

Posted by thessa on July 11, 2003 at 09:48:41:

In Reply to: Re: Red flag, kava kava; the flag is bogus posted by R. on July 11, 2003 at 01:52:53:

The interesting thing is that we are talking about a potential association in a handful of people, while the allopathic alternatives are much more profoundly devastating. Ann Tracy is doing a great job of putting the side effects (including many deaths) of the allopathic alternatives in the limelight.

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Re: Here you go

Posted by thessa on July 11, 2003 at 10:27:56:

In Reply to: Re: Here you go posted by R. on July 11, 2003 at 02:57:19:

I'm not that familiar with Kava, it hasn't been one of the herbs I have focused on.
I know it's used for stress, insomnia, menstrual problems - but also many, many other seemingly unrelated things like urinary disorders. Often nervines/sedatives are used for these things (like lobelia, passion flower, valerian, hops, oat straw, blue cohosh, red poppy, black cohosh). It also seems to have adaptogen properties, like those of siberian ginseng for example, and analgesic properties like black willow, catnip and chamomile (but stronger). I would have to know more about the particular problem to recommend something in place of kava that can be found in the States.

I also wonder if some of the psychoactive herbs we were discussing earlier may have similar properties. Cannabis might be an example.

Anyone else have ideas?

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Re: Red flag, kava kava; the flag is bogus (Archive in monopoly.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on July 12, 2003 at 06:36:53:

In Reply to: Re: Red flag, kava kava; the flag is bogus posted by R. on July 11, 2003 at 01:52:53:

Thanks, R.

A "potential risk" of one in a billion is blown all out of proportion by the PTB since it serves the allopathic/pharmaceutical monopoly while the real risks of the current system is measured in the fact that it is now the 3rd leading cause of death in the country.

This is a political battle that has absolutely nothing to do with scientific facts.

Walt

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