Hi Walt,
The last time I posted, you suggested that I get the comprehensive parasitology profile (X3, purge) from Great Smokies. After great persistance on my part, my doctor agreed to order the test and I received the results yesterday. I would like your advice on next steps. First, I will remind you of my background and symptoms.
I began visiting your board in July. In mid-August I did the elimination diet under Bob Mcferran's guidance and have been eating the extreme Agriculturist's diet since then. At the same time I started practicing SR and have continued to do SR faithfully, twice a day, for almost 4 months now. Many things have improved for me. I have lost over 20 pounds. I no longer grind my teeth, clench my jaw or my fists, and in general I am much more relaxed, creative and intuitive. I have, though, continued to have lots of GI distress including chronic diarrhea. It used to be a mix of constipation and diarrhea, now it's always diarrhea. I can't remember the last time I had a "normal" bowel movement. My bowel movements have a strong foul smell and I constantly have gas and a churning stomach. Another curious thing is that my lab tests consistently show a high rheumatoid factor, increasing each year, but I do not seem to have any of the conditions typically associated with RF. Since RF can be associated with intestinal parasites, that led to the Great Smokies tests.
Here is what I learned:
Most tests came up negative. There was some imbalanced flora. Beneficial E. Coli and the bacteria Serratia marcescens both measured 2+ (imbalanced). The only microbiology test that seems to be a concern is Staphylococcus Aureus which measured 4+ (possible pathogen). The lab report says this is typically from food poisoning, toxic shock syndrome or psuedomembranous colitis from broad spectrum antibiotics. I'm not aware of having any of these. The report includes a list of antibiotics that are suggested for treatment of SA. (Unasyn, Caphalothin, Clindamycin, Erythromycin, Oxacillin, Tetracycline, Trimethoprim/Sulfa, Vancomycin)
The Parasitology tests showed the following:
Rare white blood cells (sample 1 only)
Many fungal conidia (a type of yeast. sample 1 only)
Many pollen (sample 2 only)
Many Entamoeba coli trophozoites (all 3 samples)
It is my understanding that both the Entamoeba coli and the Conidia can be responsible for chronic GI symptoms. The suggested treatment for is Flagyl, 750mg tid x10d.
The only prescription I currently take is .2mg of Synthroid daily.
Mostly, I am interested to know if you think I should treat the Entamoeba Coli and the SA and, if so, which drugs should I use and in what order should I treat the two. I greatly appreciate and look forward to your advice.
Namaste,
Pam
Follow Ups:
Re: entamoeba coli and staph
Posted by john h on December 16, 1998 at 14:25:44:
In Reply to: entamoeba coli and staph posted by Pam on December 16, 1998 at 11:37:26:
boy you still have quite a toxic gut. i had some of the same things , i thought i would put it my two cents, in addition to the good advice walt will tell you. im not giving med advice , but i will tell you some of the things that helped me immensely-have you tried any natural anti bacterials like golden seal,garlic,or herbal anti parasitics? i'd be real carefull with any rx antibiotics they will wipe out your good bacteria and you could wind up in a bigger mess , if you do go that route beef up on pro biotics. as an alternative my doc gave my a one shot dose i.v of flagyl followed by two days of intense vitamin i.v's mostly 20 grams of vit c. this helped a ton with the digestive symptoms. he also prescribed, believe it or not bifidus enemas ( gets rid of diahreah every time for me at least) , after a water cleansing enema. coffee enemas will also cleanse your colon , but watch them if you have diareah. as walt will tell you these just provide temporary relief , follow his protocal to get to the root cause.
Follow Ups:
Re: entamoeba coli and staph
Posted by john h on December 16, 1998 at 14:44:07:
In Reply to: Re: entamoeba coli and staph posted by john h on December 16, 1998 at 14:25:44:
walt in reading pam's post a queation arose in my mind. is it your opinion that , if done properly, your approach, (i.e exercise diet and s/r)will make the body strong enough to deal with any kind of infection in the gut, or are there some nasty critters that must be dealt with with allopathic meds?.
Follow Ups:
Re: entamoeba coli and staph
Posted by Pam on December 16, 1998 at 16:42:25:
In Reply to: Re: entamoeba coli and staph posted by john h on December 16, 1998 at 14:25:44:
John,
Thank you for your input on natural approaches. I should have mentioned that Great Smokies also lists some naturals that they consider to be investigative. For the Staphylococcus Aureus they mention Uva-Ursi or plant tannins (like Motherwort I'm guessing). I am not clear as to how to determine dosages. For the Entamoeba Coli they mention something called Quassia which I'm not familiar with. The Goldenseal and Garlic are mentioned as potential solutions for Entamoeba histolytica and giardiasis, which didn't show up for me.
According to the report, my beneficial bacteria is pretty good: Lactobacillus at 3+ and Bifidofacter at 4+, but I will continue to supplement it. My doctor will work with me to a point. The path I'm pursuing is not something he advocates and my guess is that he would push back on IV flagyl or vitamins, but will agree to write me a prescription.
Thanks again. I am very interested in hearing from others who have had success with natural products.
Pam
Re: entamoeba coli and staph
Posted by Walt Stoll on December 17, 1998 at 08:58:12:
In Reply to: entamoeba coli and staph posted by Pam on December 16, 1998 at 11:37:26:
Dear Pam,
If this were me, I would do the following:
1. First, I would get a comprehensive stool analysis from GSL.
2. Then, I would send at least 3 more (up to 6) purged stools to GSL. Even though GSL finds 10 times as many parasites as the conventional labs (who only find one out of 50 present in any specimen) that means that GSL only finds one out of 5----and they are still among the best in the nation. Repeated tests give the best chance of actually finding most of what is actually there.
3. Once those specimens have been sent, I would be tempted to take the Flagyl. To my knowledge, Flagyl only effects pathogens and does not upset the good bugs. I would also look into taking Grapefruit Seed Extract for the forseeable future.
Finally, remember that even though you have already benefitted a lot from your SR, the average person has not resolved their LGS (which is causing at least most of your present symptoms) for 6-12 months.
Congratulations on your progress. The hardest thing is getting started & you have accomplished that.
Let us know what you learn and ask any more questions you might have.
Walt
P.S. If you had to work that hard to get your doc to even send a specimen, you would profit by finding a doc who would volunteer this kind of information AND already know what to do about the results.
Follow Ups:
Re: entamoeba coli and staph
Posted by Walt Stoll on December 17, 1998 at 09:22:59:
In Reply to: Re: entamoeba coli and staph posted by john h on December 16, 1998 at 14:44:07:
Dear john H.,
Remember, that I am a converted allopath.
For people who are very ill, I think that specific antiboitic treatments for specific parasites may be necessary.
In the end, the wellness approach prevents future susceptibility to these pathogenic organisms AND will make any conventional treatment work better.
Walt
Re: entamoeba coli and staph
Posted by Pam on December 17, 1998 at 12:17:44:
In Reply to: Re: entamoeba coli and staph posted by Walt Stoll on December 17, 1998 at 08:58:12:
Walt,
Thank you very much for your response. As always your input is greatly appreciated and trusted.
I will follow your advice with regard to requesting the comprehensive stool analysis. Given the chronic diarrhea, it would not surprise me to learn of imbalanced digestive functions or malabsorption. I did not mention that I already had a Fecal sIgA run at Great Smokies. It came back normal. I assume I do not need to have that test re-run.
Regarding the additional purged stools you suggest sending to GSL. I am assuming you mean re-running the parasitology profile one or two more times. Is this the case? Can you help me understand the benefit of doing this. If I already know that some parasites have showed up, what's the advantage of looking for more? I guess my thought is that it might make sense (and save money) to just treat with Flagyl based on what I know now and then re-run the parasitology profile after the treatment is complete as a way of re-checking. Can you help me understand the flaws in my thinking?
Also, I noticed that you didn't make any recommendation regarding the stapholococcus aureas finding, which is the thing that GSL did send a treatment recommendation for. Can you elaborate on why you don't think this requires treatment? I guess I thought that staph has some potentially serious ramifications.
Thanks again Walt. You, and this bb community, are truly a gift in my life.
Namaste,
Pam
Follow Ups:
Re: entamoeba coli and staph
Posted by Walt Stoll on December 18, 1998 at 11:30:48:
In Reply to: Re: entamoeba coli and staph posted by Pam on December 17, 1998 at 12:17:44:
Hi, Pam.
Thanks for the kind words.
First, about the repeat purged stools:
These parasites are searched for microscopically. If one is seen, you have it. If not seen, the odds are 5 to 1 that it was missed. By those odds, you would have to have at least 6 purged specimens (on different days) to be pretty sure you have found all that is there. If you sent specimens to local labs (that only find one of fifty test organisms placed in the specimen) you would have to send at least 50 specimens to have a good chance of finding what is there. The CDC (in Atlanta) says that you could send hundreds of specimens (to local labs) and few of the parasites would be found.
I see no reason not to do the Flagyl first since then you would have a chance of a followup. However, remember, you may have to send 6 specimens to be sure that the treated organisms were actually gone since the same %ages are true with every specimen sent in. How wouyld you know that it was really gone and not just missed?
AND THIS IS FROM THE BEST THAT THIS COUNTRY HAS TO OFFER. The naval labs in Bathesda may be better but they do not accept any civilian specimens (even though it is our tax dollars that support them----SIGH).
The fecal sIgA is not a microscopic test & is pretty accurate with one specimen.
Hope this clarifies your questions.
The comprehensive test is pretty right the first time.
Walt
Re: entamoeba coli and staph
Posted by Walt Stoll on December 18, 1998 at 11:32:53:
In Reply to: Re: entamoeba coli and staph posted by Pam on December 17, 1998 at 12:17:44:
By the way, Pam:
I would not worry about the Staph. The odds are that it will not show up on the repeat purged specimens and they will conclude that it was a contaminant from your skin.
You have NO symptoms of a staph infestation inside your colon.
Walt