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i watched doctor oz on oprah, and he said that you can get pinworms or just worms? from walking outside with bare feet. is this true, and how would u know if you have worms? i dont have an itchy bottom, but do occasionally walk outside with bare feet.
also he said that can catch worms from eating raw meat! is that true? what about people who eat meat rare coooked etc????
In Reply to: Wormy questions on Raw Meat posted by Mum [4.3175] on August 24, 2007 at 23:03:05:
Mum,
Hookworms are the classical parasites that one can get from walking outside barefoot and they are one of the more dangeroius parasites! Pinworms are transfered hand to mouth.
Many parasites can be transferred via poorly cooked or raw meat.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Wormy questions on Raw Meat posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on August 25, 2007 at 07:52:57:
ew. How would one know? How disgusting.blah.
In Reply to: Wormy questions on Raw Meat posted by Mum [4.3175] on August 24, 2007 at 23:03:05:
So, no walking outside with bare feet or sitting or lying down on the ground anymore?
In Reply to: Re: Wormy questions on Raw Meat posted by R. [3931.2450] on August 26, 2007 at 01:00:07:
LOL!
too late to stop now!
but go on, what's your opinion? was hoping you would chime in with a bit more than that!
In Reply to: Re: Wormy questions on Raw Meat posted by michele [2503.4164] on August 25, 2007 at 10:56:49:
Michele,
The best way is to fully cook meats. The government has pretty good guidelines for what that means and those standards are nearly ALL about preventing preventable parasitosis.
Good animal husbandry is a pretty good preventive BUT, having been raised on an Ohio farm--that practiced those guidelined stringently--I would NEVER eat any meat that had not been fully cooked!
Hope this helps.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Wormy questions on Raw Meat -- Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on August 26, 2007 at 07:16:31:
walt
would u give the same advice for feeding pets? not to feed raw meat cos of worm risk?
and what about people who like their meat cooked rare? is it highly likelythere ar ea lot of people running around out there with worms and dont even know it??
In Reply to: Re: Wormy questions on Raw Meat -- Archive. posted by Mum [4.3175] on August 26, 2007 at 08:39:41:
Hi Mum,
I eat raw beef, buffalo and fish, and feed my dogs raw. I've been eating that way for most of my life (47 yrs), and the dogs for around 6 years.
Aside from a bout of pinworms when I was around 10 or 11 - it was going around school, and is not tranmittable through raw stuff as far as I know - I have never had any symptoms. I enjoy eating these things and they make me feel GREAT when I do...
the dogs are thriving and we just had my older one at the vet for bloodwork because of digestive upset (she had colitis as a puppy and it has returned) and her bloodwork was excellent - great liver kidney, thyroid, everything. The vet was very impressed. She will be 14 years old in a few months! (the dog, not the vet).
So...what to think. I am afraid that for me, I'd have to actually get an infestation of some sort before I quit eating stuff that I so thoroughly enjoy!
~~~8>
In Reply to: Re: Wormy questions on Raw Meat posted by R. [3931.2450] on August 26, 2007 at 01:00:07:
I don't do any of that around here, but it's because of SLUGS, not parasites !!
~~~8>
In Reply to: Re: Wormy questions on Raw Meat -- Archive. posted by labrat [7343.2765] on August 26, 2007 at 11:24:16:
i have been feeding our dog raw food from as long as i can remember you and R , and that site RAFD recommending to do so.
our dog is thriving. he doesn't always get raw food, but i try to as much as possible.
i occaionsally will give him raw chicken necks (loves those - I DO notice he has been eating some of baby's chalk for writingon the blackboard, so thinking he needs more calcium in his diet - dog not baby!)
i use to give him regular canned dogfood and biscuit. he got very tired of eating that, and would eat it with no enthusiasm.
so i cut that out entirely.
i give him leftovers. like i made a lamb stew and we didn't finish it, so he is getting the rest of it. hubby says that it smells a bit off though, but i reckon it's good enough for a dog. and doggy loves it!
at the store, i am not sure what to buy him as far as really good quality foods. i think that giving him organ meats iss too rich for his system. i gave him that before and he got sick on it, but if i give him just a little mixed in with regular food (such as chopped beef and eukanubu dog biscuit)
i have been buying him beef mince, and stirfry raw beef at the store, and slightly cook it up for him before giving it to him.
about the worm thing. how would YOU or ME know if we had them??? other than an itchy bot???
In Reply to: Re: Wormy questions on Raw Meat -- Archive. posted by mum to Labrat [4.3175] on August 26, 2007 at 22:06:08:
eat some raw garlic and cayenne pepper. In caps would be best.
In Reply to: Re: Wormy questions on Raw Meat -- Archive. posted by Mum [4.3175] on August 26, 2007 at 08:39:41:
Mum,
I think I have archived some of rhe government's statistics about parasites found in the so called "healthy" population. Briefly: the average fresh produce grocery clerk has more than 5 pathogenic parasites--for example.
Pets cannot be kept from sniffing or actually eating anything lying around AND they seem to be more resistant to damaging effects of common parasites. However, as a dog person I know that all vets recommend fairly periodic "worming" meds or at least monthly preventive meds.
Yes to your last question. Actually, humans are mostly made up of parasitic and symbiotic cells! At least 9 out of 10 cells in our bodies are not human.
It seems that we are a bundle of cooperating and pathogenic cells loosly held together with human cells. Even our "human cells" are not completely human. The tiny intracellular organelles called mitochondria are not human but are essential for our life.
The idea is to encourage a healthy balance of all these cells and to discourage those pathogens that damage us. Much of what we recommend on this BB have been found to generally do that and at least some of those benefits are due to the promotion of this healthy balance.
Hope this helps.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Wormy questions on Raw Meat -- Archive. posted by mum to Labrat [4.3175] on August 26, 2007 at 22:06:08:
Well, I figure if I don't know I have them, then they're not really causing a problem...once symptoms manifest, that would be another story!
~~~8>
In Reply to: Re: Wormy questions on Raw Meat posted by Mum [4.3175] on August 26, 2007 at 05:03:33:
I've lost a lot of my fear of microbes and parasites. I've always walked barefooted and will continue doing it. And I will not stop getting in touch with the ground -- I will sit and lie on it. When I eat raw meat (organ meats, mostly), I freeze it first, just in case there were some parisites. I've never needed to sterilize my environment and still don't see a need for it. Animals don't worry about this, and neither will I.
Have I added enough? :)
In Reply to: Re: Wormy questions on Raw Meat -- Archive. posted by labrat [1119.4162] on August 27, 2007 at 08:20:21:
That's my attitude too. Especially considering what Walt said about 9 out of 10 of our cells not being human.
In Reply to: Re: Wormy questions on Raw Meat -- Archive. posted by mum to Labrat [4.3175] on August 26, 2007 at 22:06:08:
about your doggie- You should only give organ meat in proportion to the other meat you are giving. My large greyhound only gets about 4 ounces at a time along with her 1 1/3 lbs. of meat and bones...if you're giving a whole meal of it, then YES I would expect it to cause loose stools!
Hope that helps...
In Reply to: Re: Wormy questions on Raw Meat -- Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on August 27, 2007 at 07:18:38:
Hi Walt,
It has not been my experience that vets recommend any regular worming for my many dogs I've had. The only time I have used any worming meds was with puppies that showed symptoms and one adult dog after we moved to a place that was rife with stray cats. My current 14 year old has never been wormed since I've had her (at about 11 weeks)! I have also never seen any worms in her feces, and have been picking it up for 14 years.
I guess I can't help but think that if you or your pet has worms, you will know it. You'll either see them in the poop or feel them moving around inside you...am I that far off base thinking that?
I saw a show on parasites the other night on animal planet called "Eaten Alive" and all the people on there were there because they KNEW they had something...one guy found a Loa loa worm crawling across his eye 3 years after returning from a Peace Corps mission...so it took him three years, but he did find it. The others it didn't take so long to discover their 'room mates'!
I love your observation that "It seems that we are a bundle of cooperating and pathogenic cells loosly held together with human cells. Even our "human cells" are not completely human. The tiny intracellular organelles called mitochondria are not human but are essential for our life."
~~~8>
In Reply to: Re: Wormy questions on Raw Meat -- Archive. posted by labrat [7343.2765] on August 28, 2007 at 20:25:13:
Thanks, Labrat.
Even "heartworm" prevention???? My dog's heartworm preventive has anti intestinal parasite stuff combined with it.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Wormy questions on Raw Meat -- Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on August 29, 2007 at 07:58:14:
I realized after hitting "submit" that I should have mentioned the heartworm. Yes I do use that since it's a more passively acquired problem. We use Frontline - but to my knowledge it doesn't have any intestinal preventative in it...maybe I ought to read the package!!
But I still wonder if you think we can all be worm infested without knowing it...? What's your take on that?
~~~8>
In Reply to: Re: Wormy questions on Raw Meat -- Archive. posted by labrat [1119.4162] on August 29, 2007 at 08:42:26:
Labrat,
Did you read my post about this? We ALL are infested with some kinds of parasites. Most of us with more than one pathogenic parasite. We have accepted so much less function than a "normal healthy human" could expect that the lowered health expectations caused, in part, by our "asymptomatic parasitosis" that we just think we are healthy. We don't know any better.
Remember the philosopher (can't recall his name right now--starts with an "M") who, at the turn of the 20th century, spent 10 years looking for a perfectly healthy person and never found even one?
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Wormy questions on Raw Meat -- Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on August 29, 2007 at 12:07:09:
Yes I did read your post, but I am wondering specifically about worms. I can understand that we are all infested with *microscopic* baddies, but when I had pinworms as a child, I knew it, and when my dogs and/or cats have had round worms or tape worms, I saw them in their feces...
Also, it seems that your observations and "M's" observations open the possibility that if our definition of healthy includes being parasite-free, maybe we need to re-think that. If we all have parasites, then "healthy" must mean thriving despite those hitchhikers!
~~~8>
In Reply to: Re: Wormy questions on Raw Meat -- Archive. posted by labrat [1119.4162] on August 29, 2007 at 14:04:49:
Thanks, Labrat.
I certainly agree with your final statement!
Actually seeing parasites in the stool indicates a FAR advanced infestation whereas a routine infestation can be a drag on anyone's health without actually seeing them OR having GI symptoms from them (most common situation).
If you are interested in really getting a handle on this, I would suggest you seek the counsel of your "reference librarian" at your local public library. Let her know what you are interested in and she will find (or get from their lending network within a couple of weeks) a good reference for you.
Let us know what you learn.
Walt
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