|
[ Skilled Relaxation Archive ] [ Main Archives Page ] [ Glossary/Index ] [ FAQ ] [ Recommended Books ] [ Bulletin Board ] |
Search this site! | |
How do I know I am entering Alpha/Theta state while I am practicing Skilled Relaxation? I don't want to buy expensive gadgets. Is there any easy, inexpensive, reliable way to tell that? I have looked at the GSR biofeedback devices. They use audio frequency or a meter to indicate 'relaxation' on some arbitrary scale. I still don't know if I am entering Alpha/Theta state.
Thanks
In Reply to: Skilled Relaxation posted by Shrinivas on May 16, 2002 at 09:55:29:
Shrinivas,
If there was an earier or cheaper way to be sure, I would certainly have already recommended it. I have worked in this field for more than 30 years and still do not have an easier way. The GSR is the best I know.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Skilled Relaxation (An easier way?) Archive. posted by Walt Stoll on May 17, 2002 at 12:29:11:
Thanks Dr. Stoll. I think I will invest in a GSR device. It is important for me to know whether I am achieving alpha/theta state instead of wasting my time. These devices still do not tell me what state I am in, but I believe they do give a degree of relaxation. I guess I will check it out.
Thanks again.
In Reply to: Re: Skilled Relaxation (An easier way?) Archive. posted by Shrinivas on May 18, 2002 at 17:58:11:
Hi Gregory,
Given your experience with mind machines, I guess I thought (assumed) you owned some brainwave monitoring equipment. I was going to ask you more about that subject.. Now you are getting the GSR (?!)
Is temperature monitoring (GSR) actually superior to brainwave monitoring (EEG), where achieving effective SR is concerned ? Or is it just that BECAUSE brainwave monitoring is considered so unaffordable, GSR is our best compromise? That's quite a different thing. Just call me a bit confused about this....
I happened on a program where you can rent a BrainMaster with self-tutorials. The program is designed around self-therapy for ADD people and/or their kids. However, it seems reasonable to suppose that one could adapt this training for ANY type of brainwave monitoring - effective SR included, no?
The rental cost for the 30-day training is about comparable to buying a GSR, so the question then becomes which is the better technology for achieving good SR... ? What do you (& Walt, or anyone) think?
In Reply to: Re: Skilled Relaxation (An easier way?) Archive. posted by Shrinivas on May 18, 2002 at 17:58:11:
Oops Shrinivas. For some reason, when I answered you before, I thought your post was by Gregory! I guess it's because he made a bunch of posts before and after yours and I was reading all of the posts in a row. duh... :^) (blushing)
In Reply to: Re: Skilled Relaxation (An easier way?) Archive. posted by Jan on May 18, 2002 at 20:46:56:
Thought I might weigh in with my opinion. Still, if you absolutely must have proof, I would suggest a combination unit like the mind mirror
Hello Jan.
It has always been my understanding that GSR based technology is based on electrical
conductivity of the skin which had a correlation to relaxation but that the ration was
not exact. I gave up on GSR as a relaxation device since because the audio (tone) was very
distracting.
It was that wich led me to L/S machines. Tonal quality wasn't
much better but the L/S machines included a mixer, so I could overlay music from a tape
or CD.
One of the better units on the market was the late and hardly lamented Zygon not so much for
the unit itself but for the tapes that came with it. There was no doubt that one was in deep
alpha/high theta. About 5 minutes after the tape started there was this unmistakable
sensation of "sinking into the bed," and total relaxation. That
particular tape is still one of my
favorites although it is hardly worth the effort of wiring myself up to the machine to listen
to it.
While I well understand your desire to "prove" that you are in a particular state, ultimately
it will prove counterproductive as it shows a counterintuitive "trust"
of the body & your habitation in it. I have found both from my own experiences and from talking to
others that being wired up like a lab monkey can be very distracting and make the session more
like a test of relaxation rather than a relaxation session.
which connects to the computer to give you an accurate log of which states took place & when, and
without all that wasted paper.
Lightwalking,
Gregory
In Reply to: Re: Skilled Relaxation ~ Gregory~ Now You See Him, Now You Don't. posted by Gregory on May 19, 2002 at 05:05:35:
In Reply to: Mind Mirror Link (enabled) posted by Gregory on May 19, 2002 at 05:09:16:
Thanks Gregory.
They have deleted a number of essential biofeedback outputs from the original and have not decreased the cost. Stuff like this is supposed to get cheaper (like computers) over the years. The original, more complete, Mind Mirror cost $3500 back in the '70s.
Another problem is that nearly all of the channels on this machine are EEG contacts and they are notoriously difficult to handle without interference.
I would recommend this machine only for professionals with a LOT of patience and plenty of money.
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Skilled Relaxation ~ Gregory~ Now You See Him, Now You Don't. posted by Gregory on May 19, 2002 at 05:05:35:
Gregory,
(Sorry, re GSR - I somehow got galvanic skin resistance mixed up with temperature.)
While I well understand your desire to "prove" that you are in a particular state, ultimately it will prove counterproductive as it shows a counterintuitive "trust" of the body & your habitation in it.
By that logic, ANY mind machine is counter-intuitive. You should just KNOW, INTUIT, and FEEL and not ever need or want a machine... ;-)
My intentions with brainwave monitoring are:
(1) Verification of my SR technique being effective.
(2) Curiosity about the rest of my consciousness.
My "ideal" machine (outside of cost) would leave me alone during an SR session. The feedback would be recorded for upload to a PC and saved to a file for display on screen afterwards, so you could see what occurred.
The training with the Brainmaster is described here. For training in beta states it seems fine because you want the alertness to respond. This technique would probably NOT work so well for meditative states though, because of the problem you identified above; you don't WANT the feedback right then. But the unit could still be useful, I should think. Being available for under a grand (used), this machine is something I could manage to afford, IF appropriate. Unlike the Mind Mirror which I thank you for showing me but is out of my league (in more ways than one, it sounds like).
Well, here I am trying to figure this stuff out having rarely seen, felt, or touched this type of equipment. So I could be talking through my hat. Unless I get hands-on with this stuff, I just won't have that good a sense of it.
Of course, I could see a biofeedback practitioner before or in lieu of buying anything. This may be the best way to go before I start shelling out for any equipment. I just hesitate because I picture having to keep going back to the practitioner over and over again until I get the SR right, and this could end up costing as much as just purchasing a Brainmaster unit outright!
Then there is my interest in other aspects of consciousness. I don't think I'm so-called ADD, but my consciousness is definitely off kilter. (I dunno, maybe it is pretty common to feel this way) In some ways, I feel I could use much healing in the beta area. This interests me as much as the SR actually!
A biofeedback practitioner I saw twice in 1995 did tell me I had a lot of "EEG slowing" brainwave patterns during my beta states. At the time, I made a note of this, but the technical aspect didn't mean much to me then.
He explained that when people are supposed to be awake and alert in beta, having lots of alpha and theta at the same time is not good.
In Reply to: Re: Skilled Relaxation ~ Mind machines and brainwave states posted by Jan on May 20, 2002 at 07:12:00:
I have doubts about what the biofeedback practitioner told you. Especially one with something to
With cost as a factor, I would recommend a unit like the BrainTracer, however I can no longer
Jan,
sell you.
find the unit or the software. I think it has been discontinued.
In its place is software called"Biograph" which works with
a monitoring unit called "Procomp+"
which may perform the functions you are looking for.
These two resources contain links where you can find other biofeedback machines and software.
Lightwalking,
Gregory
In Reply to: Re: Mind machines and brainwave states posted by Gregory on May 20, 2002 at 11:15:01:
Thanks Gregory I so much appreciate your informed advice in pointing me to these places.
That practitioner did have something to sell (a particular treatment method), but it was I who sought him out.. I ended up not doing it for various reasons.
What IS the significance of alpha and theta waves while you are in beta... if possible to answer? I have ALSO read that a high performance mind will have more of all types of waves present... so this is a rather confusing point, being 180 degrees opposite. Maybe it is hard to generalize about this. Anyway, Holosync and my involvement in this board are kindling my interest in this... The best thing for me to do is read up in some of the recommended literature I have found out about. But I wonder if you might elaborate what you meant by your comment. Regards
In Reply to: Re: Mind machines and brainwave states posted by Jan on May 22, 2002 at 04:55:32:
Hi, Jan.
We ALL have alpha and theta waves present during normal beta, waking activity.
However, it is the production of a predominance of alpha or theta (or a mixture of both) that produces the relaxation response.
Hope this helps.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Mind machines and brainwave states posted by Walt Stoll on May 23, 2002 at 07:43:22:
Hope this helps.
Walt, your response always helps. I know there is always a mix of brainwaves. But it's not an SR question at all. My question pertains to a diagnosis of "too much" alpha and theta during the awake and alert state, vs. normal amounts, for the alert state - assuming that normal is more than just a setting on my washing machine.:)
It's not an idle question as it concerns my mental state. So far in life, I have learned that my mental state is affected by almost everything. Wellness is a huge factor; the brain is a bodily organ. It is helpful to keep the big picture while focusing in on something as technically arcane as describing a mental state with brainwaves. Be that as it may...
Greg said he doubts this diagnosis but then does not elaborate.
It's surely not an across-the-board case of too much of this Hz, and not enough of the other Hz, but the synchronization of them, the contrasts of way too much and way too little, as different bands are over- or under-active in different people, in different states of consciousness, and in different activities. It is this that I seek to know about.
I use the word "know" to mean knowledge - moving beyond what some practitioner is telling me, which is why I asked the question.
Right, but of course, getting one person's answer on an internet BB would just result in having YET ANOTHER opinion to mull over. I don't know why I keep thinking anyone can tell me anything. :)
Thanks again for the references.
In Reply to: Re: Mind machines and brainwave states posted by Jan on May 24, 2002 at 16:18:15:
Thanks, Jan.
Perhaps a place to start would be "The Second Brain" by Dr Michael Gershon (1999).
Walt
|
[ Skilled Relaxation Archive ] [ Main Archives Page ] [ Glossary/Index ] [ FAQ ] [ Recommended Books ] [ Bulletin Board ] |
Search this site! | |