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I asked this question some time ago but by the time I got around to checking the responses the topic was off the board.
SO can anybody explain why SR is better than sleep. I already know that it is - I just need an explanation as to the difference between the two as pertaining to relaxation and the health benefits.
thanks
p.s. for Dr Stoll: I liked the old format of the board better. Easier to navigate and also longer archive of current messages.
In Reply to: _WHY_ SR vs sleep posted by Martin on November 18, 2002 at 19:02:05:
Hi Martin,
I'm paraphrasing here: Walt says he studied and researched it, nobody knows or can prove exactly why it's better, but it is.
If you remember the date you typed your first message, you can enter the date and your name as a search on the "day posts search engine" and find the thread, then read the discussion that went on about it.
Everybody likes the old format better, but it became too expensive, as the traffic on the BB continues to increase.
Best wishes,
Happygal
In Reply to: _WHY_ SR vs sleep posted by Martin on November 18, 2002 at 19:02:05:
It's funny: "nobody can prove exactly why it's better, but it is." Sounds like a speculation to me.
I don't agree that it's better. You can live with sleep and no SR, but not vice versa. Not well, anyway. They do different things, and sleep is crucial. SR brings additional benefits; although, some of them seem to overlap, such as feeling refreshed, which never happened to me, BTW.
In Reply to: Re: _WHY_ SR vs sleep posted by R. on November 19, 2002 at 02:22:20:
R.
How long did you practise SR for and do you still practise, and what form if any do you practise?
In Reply to: Re: _WHY_ SR vs sleep posted by R. on November 19, 2002 at 02:22:20:
Hi Martin,
Hey, remember, I was paraphrasing there. Go back and find the original post if you want to see EXACTLY what Walt said. I have no doubt that he researched it in great depth.
"Better" in my sentence means for healing chronic conditions, not better than sleeping for life maintenance. Perhaps I should have said, "More effective at discharging stress effect than sleep." or something like that.
I don't think that SR is a substitute for sleep, although it may be for some people. They are different, with different purposes. In this case, I'm talking about SR for healing purposes.
Did you have your SR checked with biofeedback? How long have you been doing the practice? Do you do it twice a day?
Best wishes,
Happygal
In Reply to: Re: _WHY_ SR vs sleep posted by R. on November 19, 2002 at 02:22:20:
R.
For more than 200 years no one knew why aspirin worked, either, but STILL it did!
Surely observing effects is as good (or better) an indication of the validity of something as some laboratory test.
Walt
In Reply to: _WHY_ SR vs sleep posted by Martin on November 18, 2002 at 19:02:05:
DId you ever wake up in the morning still tired, maybe even worse than you felt when you went to sleep? Many people will answer "yes" to that question. For many of us living hectic lives, dealing with issues at work & home, when we sleep our brains go into overdrive. We may grind our teeth (extremely common) clench various muscles, dream about stressful thing -- like cars out of control, disasters, etc.
When our minds are processing such issues, the stress chemicals continue to circulate through our bodies, doing their damage. The body responds to the things we are visualizing just as if they were really happening. The old Fight - or - Flight thing. So we may seldom if ever really deeply relax to the point that the body gets into repair-and-renewal mode.
When you do Skilled Relaxation, you focus the mind -- on the breath (my favorite) or a word, or a candle flame, or a subliminal sound. When you find your mind wandering into thoughts, you bring it back to the focus. In this way, "monkey mind" is brought under control. And, in the SR I do, you go even further into a "witness" attitude. So you just notice thoughts, not clinging to them or rejecting them. They're just thoughts -- they're not real. And you feel yourself "detach" from the need to react to every single thought that floats thru your mind.
It's also a process of getting more aware of when you're stressed - recognizing the signals - because you get to know how it feels to be unstressed. Then you've got a reference point.
And for me, the practice of SR (it's not just relaxation, it's SKILLED relaxation) has created what I can only call "space" in my day-to-day life. RAther than reacting habitually to every little thing, I am often more objective about how I want to respond. Many things that I would have gotten worked up over, I now will have the presence of mind to say -- "no big deal". And let it go. You have more freedom, really, because you choose where you want to put your energy, rather than acting out habitual patterns -- most of which we learned in childhood.
This a hasty reply -- hope it makes some sense. So SR isn't at all the same as sleep. It is actually more about "waking up" and taking charge of your life. The shift is subtle, but once you go there, you'll know why it's such a valuable -- I would say, even necessary -- practice to enhance your life and health.
PS - I liked the old format better too!
In Reply to: My 2 cents ... it's about developing a SKILL posted by Jen on November 19, 2002 at 08:57:23:
You make a lot of sense.
In Reply to: My 2 cents ... it's about developing a SKILL posted by Jen on November 19, 2002 at 08:57:23:
Makes sense.
Thanks
In Reply to: Re: _WHY_ SR vs sleep posted by Angelique on November 19, 2002 at 03:05:55:
I used Centerpointe's sound tracks. I started doing their full program (both soundtracks -- 1 hour a day). Then I switched to using just the first one. I used to do it twice a day regularly, but now only from time to time. It has never been enough for me to nap for 15 minutes. So the "Power Nap" wouldn't work for me because I get VERY sleepy after that. I need several hours of sleep at least.
In Reply to: Re: _WHY_ SR vs sleep posted by Happygal on November 19, 2002 at 06:13:08:
Right. Well, I wanted to say that because people think SR can substitute sleep. It may substitute a little bit of sleep, but not much. So people go overboard.
No, I haven't had my SR checked yet. Please see my reply to Angelique for my answer to your questions to me.
P.S. Why did you call me Martin?
In Reply to: Re: _WHY_ SR vs sleep posted by R. on November 20, 2002 at 01:58:58:
Hi R.,
Sorry for calling you Martin by mistake.
If SR isn't working for you, maybe you need a different approach. Try a different technique, get your SR practice tested by biofeedback to make sure it's effective.
It has done wonders for me -- tremendous changes in my physical health. I wish you could have the same experience.
Best wishes,
Happygal
In Reply to: Re: _WHY_ SR vs sleep posted by R. on November 20, 2002 at 01:54:29:
Why did you cut back on Centerpointe? Did you find it wasnt helping you?
Whats the "Power" Nap? I also need 8 hours sleep to function optimally, but do find with SR that I sleep better and dont need as much sleep.
Angie
In Reply to: My 2 cents ... it's about developing a SKILL posted by Jen on November 19, 2002 at 08:57:23:
Thanks, Jen.
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: Re: _WHY_ SR vs sleep posted by R. on November 20, 2002 at 01:54:29:
Did you find Centerpointe helpful at all?
It did not seem to do anything for me. I gave up after about 6 months. I am using Monroe Institute and some others which seem to work much better in addition to not costing an arm and a leg.
I think Centerpointe might just be a scam.
In Reply to: Re: _WHY_ SR vs sleep posted by Martin on November 20, 2002 at 10:21:39:
Yes, I found it helpful. It helped me enter a relaxed state. But then... I can do that on my own too. I've attended their two workshops and found them VERY helpful in my personal growth. But... after getting the promised 12 month (2 x 6 m) growth, I didn't feel the need to continue. :) So, if I have to be honest, based on my personal experience, I can't recommend it, considering their price. However, what must be taken into consideration is that I wasn't following their instructions. I didn't meditate every day for a long time. Sometimes I did, and sometimes I didn't. So, I wouldn't use my own report to decise whether their program is good or not. Since they offer a one year money back guarantee, I'd certainly try if I were looking for a way to start in this direction.
In Reply to: Re: _WHY_ SR vs sleep posted by Happygal on November 20, 2002 at 04:42:31:
I will start using hypnosis.
In Reply to: Re: _WHY_ SR vs sleep posted by Angelique on November 20, 2002 at 06:48:37:
I cut back on Centerpointe probable for the same reason many people don't practice SR regularly. I would've done the same had it been another technique. But I will start doing it again. I think this time I will use hypnosis. I will also give my subconscious suggestions about what I want in life.
You can read about the "Power Nap" at http://www.dreamdoctor.com/better/improve/nap.shtml and http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=%22power+nap%22.
In Reply to: My 2 cents ... it's about developing a SKILL posted by Jen on November 19, 2002 at 08:57:23:
Makes sense, but I would disagree that thoughts are not real. They are very real. Perhaps, you meant something else.
In Reply to: Re: _WHY_ SR vs sleep posted by R. on November 21, 2002 at 15:55:47:
So what kind of changes did you see?
I actually think I lost more than I gained during the time I was on their program.
In Reply to: Re: _WHY_ SR vs sleep posted by Martin on November 22, 2002 at 16:38:32:
Well, I think their retreats benefited me the most. They really helped my open up emotionally. During one of them, especially, I had what felt like an explosion or melt down of a block that didn't allow me to express my emotions openly. While I can't be sure that the tapes were beneficial (or more precisely, better than cheaper ones), I don't regret one bit that I joined their program. But again, that's mostly from their retreats.
What do you think you lost due to using their soundtracks?
In Reply to: Re: _WHY_ SR vs sleep posted by R. on November 22, 2002 at 16:54:15:
Well I thought I my mind wasn't as sharp during that period when I was on the program. I could not concentrate very well.
Martin
In Reply to: Re: _WHY_ SR vs sleep posted by R. on November 21, 2002 at 15:55:47:
"So, if I have to be honest, based on my personal experience, I can't recommend it, considering their price. However, what must be taken into consideration is that I wasn't following their instructions. I didn't meditate every day for a long time. Sometimes I did, and sometimes I didn't. So, I wouldn't use my own report to decise."
I personally found the Centerpointe very beneficial, when I did practise regularly.
But Walt does say to meditate twice a day rather than once a day, which is what Centerpointe advises. ONe hour a day. Maybe I should have continued with it on a regular basis just to see how much more benefit I would have got out of it.
R. is right. Only if you have practised it consistently and according to their directions will you know.
I can relate to the drowsiness you mentioned R. Its very off putting. I use to feel like I was zoned out after a session and HAD to go to bed. I do use the magnetic rings when I centerpointe and that zaps that drowsiness right out of my head. I was only able to continue because of those rings. Maybe something you want to look into R. If you ever decide to re-continue with Centerpointe.
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