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Dr. Walt:
After reading your BB for almost a year now, I am convinced to at least TRY the Skilled Relaxation (SR). I don't believe it will work but I will try it. What I'd like is to read stories of people who have truly benefited from SR. I have fantastic documentation of my physical problems, Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome, Multiple Allergies, Recurrent upper respiratory infections, etc. And I will report how my test results change as I go through SR.
What I want is stories from people who had sound medical documentation of their condition prior to SR and their results at 6 months, 1 year etc. I am interested in all stories. You've heard show me the money... Well SHOW ME THE MEDICAL DOCUMENTATION!!!
Lisa_chicago
In Reply to: Calling ALL who have benefited from Skilled Relaxation posted by Lisa_chicago on January 14, 2001 at 14:59:44:
why should anyone show you the money? the proof is all over the globe. doctors dontbelieve it,cause they are taught wrong.many hospitals in china have reversd cancer with meditation only. all f us have cliical evidence for our problems,but i simply cannot meditate alll day,for a year or two,without working,to cure my illness,i may need surgery,or meds,because i let it get so far. but truly,how many yoga people or tai chi people do ou see that are sick at young ages?i know that stress is the root of all my illness,dr stoll is correct,he is not a genius,he is a smart guy,and does his research. in martial arts,i have seen strong minded paople do crazy things,i unfortunately am not brought up with that strong mind,and hence i am ill.our mind is th weapon or the curse.good luck---- if you want results,go look up any chi gung hospital in china. and im sure some people here will answer you. i see my dad,he is 62,works 19 hrs a day,and he sees me sick,he never gets ill,beause he says he doesnt have time to get sick,he has amortgage to pay. he eats terrible,and just works,no pleasures.and yet at 62,he works four jobs,an im 32 and at home sick,,,his mind is what keeps im well
In Reply to: Re: Calling ALL who have benefited from Skilled Relaxation posted by beegs on January 14, 2001 at 17:24:48:
beeps,
don't see yourself short. You can do whatever you want to
and believe or at least Think you can. I like a lot of
the Eastern thinking and Try to incorporate it into my life.
Just saw a show on Discovery about Martial Arts Masters and
trying to see what I can use from the way they train to
maybe make my muscles take the strains that things I do
put them through. I can lift weights with little if any
aches unless I strain a muscle but doing a job fixing
something can tear me up for days so maybe I am doing a LOT
more straining to turn a wrench or can't coordinate mind and
body since the motions aren't repetitive or focused and I
use more muscles or overdo movements or exertion but with
brain and muscle damage I had to relearn a lot an plan every
step and wait till everything comes together to get started.
I still make plans to build or fix things and if I Ever
get it all together I am gona be One Busy Person but I guess
I am now.
VF
In Reply to: Calling ALL who have benefited from Skilled Relaxation posted by Lisa_chicago on January 14, 2001 at 14:59:44:
Lisa,
If you Don't believe in SR then Why try it ?? Do you think
you will do it right while thinking all the time, This Won't
Work ?? If you saw documentation whould that make Any
Difference ?? I guess I'm just different and Wouldn't try
something I didn't believe might help and would look for
something I Did believe in or felt had a chance but you
sound like you will fight it and somone Else would have to
do the meditating for you.
VF
In Reply to: Re: Calling ALL who have benefited from Skilled Relaxation posted by beegs on January 14, 2001 at 17:24:48:
These are great responses so far. What I'm looking for is data. What were your test results before SR and after SR. I have first and second opinions from Drs. on my test results so that my physical status is well documented. I'd like to post my results in 6 months 1 year etc. This I think will give good scientific background for the effectiveness of this tool.
Lisa_chicago
In Reply to: Re: Calling ALL who have benefited from Skilled Relaxation posted by Lisa_chicago on January 15, 2001 at 10:08:37:
people have data,i guess they choose not to show you,hae you shown them your data? i believe you are looking for eastern things to work,but with a western mind. use your own data and give it a reasonable try,and let us know.
In Reply to: Calling ALL who have benefited from Skilled Relaxation posted by Lisa_chicago on January 14, 2001 at 14:59:44:
Dear Lisa,
The kind of "proof" you're wanting may not be easy to come by in any form other than "anecdotal," which you may or may not consider valid. Studies have been done that validated the benefit of SR for some conditions (e.g., rheumatoid arthritis and high blood pressure), but the beauty of SR is that you never know which of your ailments might improve until you actually DO it. Then, of course, the difficulty is to "prove" that SR led to the improvement.
From my husband's and my personal experience with SR, we have seen MANY of our health problems either improve or disappear altogether since we began doing SR. In the case of several of these conditions, doctors were either unable to determine the cause of the problem or couldn't suggest any effective (or acceptable) treatment.
Given that SR is a thoroughly enjoyable activity, I say why not try it? All you have to lose is a little time and maybe a lot of health problems.
Serenely,
Vicki
In Reply to: Calling ALL who have benefited from Skilled Relaxation posted by Lisa_chicago on January 14, 2001 at 14:59:44:
Hi, Lisa.
You do not have to believe in it for it to work! All you have to do is to do it right. Honest skeptics make the best testimonials.
Dr Benson, MD's (Harvard Medical School Professor) book "The Relaxation Response" would be a good place for you to start for "documentation".
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Calling ALL who have benefited from Skilled Relaxation (Archive in SR.) posted by Walt Stoll on January 16, 2001 at 08:03:24:
Hello Dr. Walt:
In addition to hormone blood pressure etc, etc, I have some other test results I'd like to lay out here. I went to a center today where they test for ADD using brainwaves alpha, beta theta etc. (I'm still learning so I'm not sure if these are the correct words) Anyway, the test results showed that I have ADD. When the Dr. that runs the Center met with me he politely made it clear that the center probably would not be of assistance. I had developed good coping skills, worked well, played nice with others etc.... This was not a suprise to me... I really went to him just for the biofeedback testing for SR and to have contact with a biofeedback specialist. I told him this.
He , however, did not want to let me leave until he did a few more brain wave tests. I did fine on all but one... I guess it measured muscle tension (through Beta waves? maybe) and alpha wave. He was trying to determine what was going on while I concentrated... Still not too clear on this so please excuse any incorrect terminology... He kept saying you need to relax, so I'd relax and he'd say you really need to relax or this won't work. Keep in mind this was all a pleasant experience, he was very polite and I have nothing negative going on in my life. Finally he said one last time you can relax now... in my mind I was thinking "Buddy, if I relaxed anymore I would be sleeping".
At this point he said something about how some people tend to tense their muscles when they concentrate /study. And I say, "Well of course, how else are you going to able to concentrate and get things done, for example tests, life, reading the paper etc." At this point his face went from a casual smile to dead pan blank. Sensing something was up, I said, "Isn't that what you do when you study or concentrate on something?"... He said,"No." Not believing him I rephrased the question about three diiferent ways... the result is he did not have to become tense to become focused. At this point, the testing was completed and we went back into his office. At this time he said he did think that the Center could help me. He pointed out that there is a group of people with ADD who have learned how to learn INEFFICIENTLY. They tense their muscles to study/learn. He said normally you only tense like this in EMERGENCY SITUATIONS and it lasts for 30 minutes. I was in a group of ADD'ERs who remain tense like this all the time. The result is extreme fatigue and other problems. He is going to send me an article outlining this very topic. He said they can teach me to learn/concentrate another way so I'm not tensing my muscles all the time. Keep in mind, I don't think I'm that tense.
So, why am I writing this lenghty letter to you ...To let you know that this is the first time I've had any type of "medical documentation" concerning my "tension level". (I'm not sure if this is bracing). AND Just to let you know I am still a skeptic of SR. However, I'm still willing to try SR and to post my test results. I am going to try SR for the next 6 months and then return to the ADD Center to see if anything has changed. If not, I will continue SR for the next 6 months and also incorporate their the ADD Center's techniques to improve my learning skills.
As a side note: I've heard that some women with Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (I have been told that I have this) don't fully relax which lends itself to the disorder. I have been to a couple of PCOS conferences and its amazing , you wanna talk about a room full of educated women. These women had PhD's in Math, Science, some were physicists, some were pilots, some were nuclear physists, some were Dr's it was amazing. And the level of Medical knowledge they had concerning their condition was even more amazing. (In fact this is where I first learned about SR and how it may help PCOS)
Well, any comments are appreciated... even if its "I told you so!"
Lisa_chicago
In Reply to: Calling ALL who have benefited from Skilled Relaxation posted by Lisa_chicago on January 14, 2001 at 14:59:44:
Lisa,
I have PCOS and am on the PCOSupport Board for my area. In September I started going to a counselor (my father, my grandmother and my uncle all passed away within 6 mos) who used Biofeedback and Neurofeedback as her main treatment. The first thing she started me on was guided imagery, once a day for the first few weeks (which qualifies as SR).
Let me go back for a minute...my PCOS symptoms and health conditions include: insulin resistance, fatigue, multiple airborne allergies, dark/coarse hair on chin and abdomen, hair loss on my head, serious gastrointestinal problems, weight gain, terrible acne and greasy skin, recurring sinus infections and I had developed sleep apnea.
Within 2 days of the guided imagery my sleep apnea was GONE, yes, GONE! I was sleeping better than I had in years. Within a month most of the hair that grew on my chin was gone, the ones that weren't gone, were very soft and blonde and one half of the hair on my abdomen was gone (now 3 mos later even more of it is gone) it just stopped growing in. My blood sugar is more stable than it was and my stomach problems are completely gone. My allergies are better and I haven't had a sinus infection in 6 mos (that is a record for me, especially in the winter, I used to have them about every other month).
What I am saying is that whether you believe it will help you or not, just do it. I listen to my guided imagery tapes religiously twice a day and I wouldn't quit for the world, now that I know how much they help me. I honestly believe that the SR is the single most important thing you can do for yourself, even more important than diet and exercise. I know that sounds extreme, especially for someone with PCOS, but it is what I believe.
My PCOS group has heard such WONDERFUL stories from me that I am going to speak at one of our meetings about what I have done and how it has helped me. Also, I am going to see if my counselor will discuss biofeedback/neurofeedback at the request of my fellow board members.
Please e-mail me if you have ANY questions, I would be more than happy to help you.
Robin Pollan, a fellow cyster.
In Reply to: Lisa, I am the PERFECT person to give you a testimonial posted by Robin Pollan on January 17, 2001 at 22:37:53:
I forgot to say that my skin has improved dramatically as has my energy level...
In Reply to: Re: Calling ALL who have benefited from Skilled Relaxation posted by Lisa_chicago on January 15, 2001 at 10:08:37:
Hopefully you have read my comments from above...I haven't had any tests done since starting my SR, but all the proof I need that my hormones are correcting is what I see and feel my body doing. Actually with all the PCOS symptoms I had, ALL of my hormone levels came back NORMAL, because they were tested by blood tests. I don't have the $200 it would cost to do a complete salive hormone panel test (which is the most accurate way to test hormones).
In Reply to: Re: Calling ALL who have benefited from Skilled Relaxation posted by Robin Pollan on January 17, 2001 at 22:48:19:
N E W Y O R K, Dec. 4 — When prominent cardiac surgeon Dr. Mehmet Oz prepares for surgery he does so in a state-of-the art hospital with every tool of modern medicine available to him.
But what might surprise or even shock most doctors is Oz’s use of ancient healing traditions.
He plays hypnosis tapes to soothe his patient’s unconscious mind, and calls on the services of an energy healer to cleanse his patient’s energy fields.
“I have been accused by some of my colleagues as being too open-minded and they say it actually in a very loving way,” said Oz, director of the Heart Assist Device Program at New York Presbyterian Medical Center. “And I understand why they make that argument because most people do have to draw lines in their life just to focus their energies.”
Over the past five years, Oz and his team at the hospital’s Complementary Medicine Program, has studied everything from guided imagery to aromatherapy to garlic. His studies have shown that the hypnosis/relaxation tape combination helps surgical and long-term recovery in his heart patients.
For example, they have less bleeding during surgery than patients who didn’t get the combination and they require almost no post-operative pain medication.
In the first part of Good Morning America’s three-part series: Alternative Medicine: East, West and the Mind, Dr. Nancy Snyderman visited Oz, one of many doctors who are responding to patients’ desires to try alternative medicine.
Not So Alternative Anymore
Two out of three Americans use some form of alternative medicine. And whether it’s tai chi or aromatherapy, “alternative” medicine is not so alternative anymore.
The long-running divide between alternative and mainstream medicine is disappearing with leading medical journals now referring to alternative treatments as “complementary” or “integrative” medicine.
Acupuncturists, hypnotists, massage therapists and meditation instructors are working at new complementary centers attached to major hospitals. A Consumer Reports survey this year found that almost 35 percent of readers had used alternative therapies such as herbals, massage or chiropractic manipulation to treat the worst two medical conditions that they had over the past two years.
A majority of respondents, 58 percent, treated their medical conditions with conventional means. But those who used alternative therapies were not shy about it, as they might have been in the past. Some 60 percent of the readers surveyed who used alternative therapies told their doctors about it, according to the survey.
The key to Oz’s technique is integrating traditional Western medicine with complementary techniques to help heal the mind, body and spirit. It’s an approach that even the most high-tech surgeons are supporting.
One reason could be that patients are, literally, buying into alternative medicine. Sales of dietary supplements, including vitamins, reached $14.7 billion in 1999, according to the Nutrition Business Journal. And the Consumer Reports survey found that over two years, readers who tried them spent up to $300 on alternative therapies.
Here are some alternative treatments outlined in Alternative Medicine, The Definitive Guide, published by Future Medicine Publishing, Puyallup, Wash.
Acupuncture originated in China over 5,000 years ago. It is based on the belief that a person’s health is determined by having a balanced flow of “qi” (also spelled chi), the vital life energy circulating through the body. When special needles are inserted into acupoints just under the skin, they help correct and rebalance this flow of energy, relieving pain and/or restoring health. It is used as a healing treatment for numerous conditions ranging from the common cold to addiction and chronic fatigue syndrome. It is also used as an adjunctive treatment for AIDS.
Applied kinesiology identifies weaknesses in specific muscles to pinpoint imbalances in the body’s organs and glands. By stimulating or relaxing these key muscles, an applied kinesiologist can diagnose and resolve a variety of health problems.
Aromatherapy uses the essential oils extracted from flowers, leaves, branches or roots, to treat everything from infections and skin disorders to immune deficiencies and stress. The benefits of the oils may be gleaned through inhalation, external application, or ingestion (with proper medical guidance only.)
Biofeedback Training teaches a person to use simple electronic devices to change and control their body’s vital functions. For example, someone who wants to regulate their heart rate would use a device that beeps or flashes for every heartbeat and they would learn how to regulate it themselves.
Bodywork therapies such as massage, deep tissue manipulation, movement awareness and energy balancing are used to reduce pain, soothe injured muscles, stimulate blood and lymphatic circulation and promote deep relaxation. Deep-tissue massage, for example, is described as releasing chronic muscular tension by using slow strokes across the grain of muscle.
Chiropractic adjustments of the spine and joints are used to influence the body’s nervous system and natural defense mechanisms in order to alleviate pain and improve general health.
Energy Medicine uses diagnostic screening devices to measure the various electromagnetic frequencies sent out by the body, in order to detect imbalances that may be causing illness, or contributing to future disease. The input of electromagnetic signals that specifically counteract the affected frequencies is designed to restore a normal energy balance within the body.
Guided Imagery uses the power of the mind to bring about a positive physical response, sort of the opposite of “worrying yourself sick.” It can reduce stress and slow heart rate, stimulate the immune system and reduce pain.
Herbal Medicine is the most ancient form of health care known to mankind, and various herbs are used to aid health conditions ranging from premenstrual syndrome to heart disease and cancer. Garlic and its preparations, for example, are known for battling everything from coughs and bronchitis to ulcers and gout.
Homeopathy is a low-cost nontoxic system of medicine that works on the theory of “like cures like.” When taken in small quantities, dilutions of natural substances from plants, animals and minerals that would prompt different symptoms of illness instead help cure the same illnesses.
Hypnotherapy uses the power of suggestion and trancelike states to reach into the deepest levels of a person’s mind to bring positive changes to their behavior. It is used to manage numerous medical and psychological problems including helping a person stop smoking, overcoming alcohol and substance abuse and controlling eating.
Meditation, which centers around breathing and focusing the mind, is used to make people feel less anxious and more in control. It is supposed to balance a person’s physical, emotional and mental states, and it may be used as an aid in treating stress and pain management. It is also used as part of an overall treatment for other conditions, including hypertension and heart disease.
Mind/Body Medicine recognizes the profound interconnection of mind and body, using methods such as meditation, imagery and biofeedback to impact health, based on the concept that mood, attitude and belief can affect virtually every chronic illness. For instance, fear, cynicism and a sense of hopelessness and helplessness can have a detrimental effect on health, while courage, a sense of humor and hopefulness can be beneficial.
Osteopathy is a form of physical medicine that helps restore the structural balance of the musculoskeletal system. It combines joint manipulation, physical therapy, and postural re-education to treat spinal and joint difficulties, arthritis, digestive disorders, menstrual problems and chronic pain.
Qigong is an ancient exercise practiced by more than 200 million people in China every day. It combines movement, meditation and breath regulation to enhance of the flow of vital energy in the body, improve blood circulation and enhance immune function.
Yoga is among the oldest known systems of health, based on the concept that if the mind is chronically restless and agitated, the health of the body will suffer. It uses physical postures, breathing exercises and meditation practices to reduce stress, lower blood pressure, regulate heart rate and even retard the aging process.
In Reply to: Lisa, I am the PERFECT person to give you a testimonial posted by Robin Pollan on January 17, 2001 at 22:37:53:
Hi I read the message you wrote to lisa in response to her wanting to find info on SR. Well basically i suffer PCOS and its getting to a point where I don't know what to do because I can't take most of the medicine that helps the symptoms...When you said that SR helped you I decided to ask you if you can tell me how I can do it to. Like I said I am desperate, if you could give me some advise on what to do i would really appreciate it. I have all the same symptoms you mentioned that you had before you started SR.
Thank you so much!
hope to hear from you soon!
Luisa
In Reply to: Re: Calling ALL who have benefited from Skilled Relaxation (Archive in SR.) posted by Lisa_chicago on January 16, 2001 at 17:39:53:
Hi, Lisa.
Your experience is a valuable insight to your condition.
Ponder this: You have to "let" the relaxation happen. You cannot "make" it happen!
Your biofeedback trainer is right, about concentrating, but he did a poor job of explaining it.
Eastern Philosophy is about "letting things happen" while Western Philosophy is about "making things happen".
Hope this helps.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: ROBIN POLLAN, I have a question! posted by Luisa on January 17, 2001 at 23:49:46:
Well, I use guided imagery tapes made by Belleruth Naparstek, they are all wonderful. I have the weight loss tape, the healthful sleep tape, the stress/anxiety tape and the general wellness tape, but there are many more and you could pick one according to what you want to target...however, they will ALL help to relax you. I tried meditation before guided imagery and it did not work well for me...I like guided imagery because all you do is put the tape on and listen, it is that easy. Check out Belleruth's website for more info...
Robin
In Reply to: Re: ROBIN POLLAN, I have a question! posted by Luisa on January 17, 2001 at 23:49:46:
Wondering if the planing I have to do to completet a task
now is imagry but I have to list steps to do things to get
me started or I Just sit and try to figure out how to Get
started. used to do the thinking as I went before my injury
and memory problems and probably remembered similar
situations and just dove in. Now I make a list of steps and
materials and tools. I sometimes think I do that to occupy
the time when my body isn't up to the job or the weather is
wrong and would add stress that would make the whole job
musch harder.
I used to use imagary occasionally while playing tennis
about how to play and I did it on the fly and just pictured
a pro i had seen and tried to get that Feel or in That zone.
I had a style of hiting the ball where i Wasn't looking like
Yavone Goolagong an Australian Aborigine player did and with
the return of Mario Lemouix to hockey and all the video of
him I notice he does the same thing. I used to totally
frustrate other players and they do also.
Have to see if I can imagine some body function
improvement but it is hard to think the way I used to and
things rarely are at that point where I can move into
different thoughts. have to figure out what the problems are
first and Always have a New problem to deal with and keep me
busy that takes a Lot longer to get done and then exhaustion
requires a lot of sleep or recovery.
VF
In Reply to: Re: ROBIN POLLAN, I have a question! posted by Robin Pollan on January 18, 2001 at 14:26:37:
I have Belleruth's tapes too, but I like Kelly Howell's better. I also like the fact that they have theta an alpha brainwaves in them. Just my opinion.
In Reply to: Re: ROBIN POLLAN, I have a question! posted by Shannon on January 18, 2001 at 15:56:19:
nmi
In Reply to: Re: Calling ALL who have benefited from Skilled Relaxation posted by Robin Pollan on January 17, 2001 at 22:48:19:
Robin:
Thank-you for all the input!!! I am going to order one of Belleruth's tape. I'll let you know how it works!!!!!!!
Lisa_chicago
In Reply to: Re: Calling ALL who have benefited from Skilled Relaxation posted by Lisa_chicago on January 18, 2001 at 20:11:36:
nmi
In Reply to: Lisa, I am the PERFECT person to give you a testimonial posted by Robin Pollan on January 17, 2001 at 22:37:53:
Thanks, Robin.
Walt
In Reply to: More info... posted by Robin, again on January 17, 2001 at 23:09:00:
Thanks, Robin.
Just think, 20 years ago I was being persecuted by my licensing board for doing a lot less than this.
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: More info... posted by Robin, again on January 17, 2001 at 23:09:00:
Thanks, Robin.
Just think, 20 years ago I was being persecuted by my licensing board for doing a lot less than this.
Namaste`
Walt
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