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Tendonitis or Bursitis

Posted by
Trish on January 15, 2001 at 10:42:29:

I have suffered from arthritis since I was about 14 (I am now 26). In the past 5 years I have had severe pain in my shoulders and upper arms (mostly my upper arms. The right arm worse than the left). This usually last for 2 to 3 weeks and then goes away for about the same number of weeks before returning. The past 5 years I worked at a job that required I do the same motions and lifting everyday.(I have not worked for the past 6 months but still have these pains). Could this have somehow caused tendonitis or bursitis? My doctor seems to think I have RA (even though all tests have been negative) and has set up an appointment to see a specialist. I admit, when my shoulders and arms hurt so do my other joints (fingers, wrists, knees, toes)...but I just don't believe the pain I feel along my upper arm is arthritis. The only medication I have taken that takes away this severe pain is Prednisone. Every anti-inflammatory or even pain pill that I have tried does no good. Even high dosages of Motrin (6 to 8 tabs at a time)does no good. The pain is lessened during the day while I am up moving around but at night it's unbearable and I can't sleep. Does anyone have an idea of what could be wrong?



Re: Tendonitis or Bursitis

Posted by
Rich on January 16, 2001 at 13:56:29:

In Reply to: Tendonitis or Bursitis posted by Trish on January 15, 2001 at 10:42:29:

Hi. I have been suffering from similar problems. However, I wasn't as young as you when I started. My problems started at 20 years old. since you were so young, autoimmune problem or Juvenile RA comes to mind. There is no definitive lab test to confirm RA. Elevated SED rate, C-reactive protein, and fluid biopsy of the joint as well as symptoms can tell the tale. Do you have red, swollen joints? Do they feel warm? These are classic symptoms of RA. Also, to be sure that your pain isn't being caused or exasberated by a posture or biomechanical problem, you might consider having a postural evaluation of to make sure your spine has its proper curvature to it. When the spine is out, it affects every joint in the body. Any repetitive motion done over and over can lead to inflammation of a tendon or ligament. the best thing to do is to give the injured area a chance to heal. If that is not possible, Prolotherapy can help speed the process along. Prolotherapy has been shown to completely heal an inflammed or damaged tendon or ligament. It also tightens the ligaments up making your joint movement stronger and more fluid with less friction. Do a search for Prolotherapy. You will need a holistic approach to heal yourself. chances are, there are many underlying factors in your pain. I found that for me, candida overgrowth, poor biomechanics, poor digestion, nutrient deficiencies, stress, ligament laxity, and spinal curvature exaggerations were at the root of my problems. A Rolfer may also bring relief by re-aligning your body. Alexander technique can teach you how to maintain your results. You may also find help by findng a nutritionally-oriented physician to help with any underlying deficiencies or imbalances caused by or pre-ceeding the pain. Also, being in pain causes stress which further throws your body out of whack. Dr. Stoll will tell you to do SR (Skilled relaxation). Definitely a good idea. Good luck. The answers are out there.

Rich



Re: Tendonitis or Bursitis (Archive in arthritis.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on January 17, 2001 at 12:22:03:

In Reply to: Tendonitis or Bursitis posted by Trish on January 15, 2001 at 10:42:29:

Hi, Trish.

It really doesn't matter which of these diagnoses you end up with since they ALL are caused by the same thing. How your body responds (what diagnosis you get) is due to your genetic structure and NOT to the cause.

ALL conventional treatment is based on just pasting duct tape over the warning lights on the dashboard of your car. You would never do that to your car; why do it to your bodymind?

See the archives about all of these diagnoses and start actually doing something about your condition.

Walt



Re: To Dr. Stoll

Posted by Trish on January 17, 2001 at 13:52:47:

In Reply to: Re: Tendonitis or Bursitis (Archive in arthritis.) posted by Walt Stoll on January 17, 2001 at 12:22:03:

Dr. Stoll, I resent your statement of "start actually doing something about your condition". What makes you think I have done nothing about my condition?? I have seen numerous doctors since I was 14. I have taken TONS of different drugs. I have taken dietary supplements and have done exercises and stretches. And now I am scheduled to see an orthopedic. I could have torn tendons considering 4000mg of ibuprofen a day does not ease my pain. I have lived with this for 12 years, obviously I know that arhtritis, tendonitis or bursitis is basically the same thing in the end, but right now I am concerned about the pain in my arms, which is limiting my mobility. IF this can be fixed by surgery or whatever else then that is the direction I will go.

I'm sorry but I guess I expected a more professional response from you.



Re: Tendonitis or Bursitis

Posted by Dave on January 17, 2001 at 19:19:49:

In Reply to: Tendonitis or Bursitis posted by Trish on January 15, 2001 at 10:42:29:

Trish, In all seriousness, I am not trying to be a smart aleck but read Richs post again. Having the problems you are having told I had arthritis for many years and many other things I finally found a good naturepath (in 1996)who put me on some good vitamins and worked with a chriopractor,who got me on my Feet at 75% pain free as of 12 months ago. I then found out about SR and watercure receipe from this site about 7 months ago and I am now operating at about98% pain free. This is only part of the story, but I would try the watercure receipe at www.watercure2.com. hope this helps you. Good luck



Dave

Posted by Trish on January 18, 2001 at 10:33:36:

In Reply to: Re: Tendonitis or Bursitis posted by Dave on January 17, 2001 at 19:19:49:

Thanks a lot of all your info Dave! I really appreciate it :o)



Re: To Dr. Stoll

Posted by
Rich on January 18, 2001 at 20:11:04:

In Reply to: Re: To Dr. Stoll posted by Trish on January 17, 2001 at 13:52:47:

Do you have cartilage or bone damage? If not, I would not feel comfortable having someone tell me I have arthritis. If it is chronic tendonitis or bursitis, save yourself the struggle and get prolotherapy. It is a cure for tendonitis. Prolotherapy heals the tendon. I would imagine that Dr. Stoll might say that that doesn't get to the cause of your problem, but it does. You were 14. How the hell are you going to know how this happend. I wouldn't expect you to. so, the only option you have is to try and fix what is going on at present. If you have tendonitis, that means the tendons are inflammed, weak and possibly torn. prolotherapy stimulates the production of fibrobasts that heal the damage and strengthen the tendon. It would be really foolish to get surgery before trying something less invasive that actually regenerates your tissue. For some reason, Dr. Stoll isn;t impressed by this treatment but it has been a Godsend for me and others. First, you need to know exactly what you are up against. Is it the tendon, the ligament, the joint, a combination these, or something different? Then, you can attack the problem. This is my opinion and what has worked for me. I am a pianist. i have been so for 20 years. I know what i means to get tendonitis. I had it for 5 years and it never got better. 4 treatments of prolo and I have never relapsed. do a search for prolotherapy and see what it says. It couldn't hurt to inform yourself of the various options. God speed!

Rich



Re: To Rich

Posted by Trish on January 19, 2001 at 11:32:33:

In Reply to: Re: To Dr. Stoll posted by Rich on January 18, 2001 at 20:11:04:

Hi Rich,

Amazingly enough, every doctor I have ever seen have just listened to my symptoms and diagnosed me w/ arthritis. The only X-Ray I have ever had is when I moved here to IN 6 months ago and my new doctor x-rayed my hand. He said there was no damage that would indicate arthritis but he is still convinced I must have RA, even though I told him about the pain in my arms and how it comes and goes...etc...When my shoulders and arms hurt so do my other joints. My knees have always bothered me severely. My large toe joints will hurt, my wrists and elbows and usually after waking up in the morning my middle finger on either hand will be bent and I can't straighten it unless I keep it under hot water or massage it. Which is why I think my doctor x-rayed it. But I guess if he was x-raying bones and not tendons and I happen to have tendonitis in my fingers as well, this would not show up on his x-ray. I would need a MRI.

I do have an appointment with an orthopedic Jan. 30th. My concern however is, by this time I may be feeling just fine again...as I usually do after 2 weeks of pain. Will his X-Rays still prove whether I have tendonitis even if I am not hurting? I'm sorry, I am just not too familar with tendonitis...since I have been led to believe for 12 years that I had arthritis.

I did do a little research on prolotherapy and it sounds promising. Surely my orthopedic doctor would suggest this to me....at least I would hope so.

Anyway, thank you for all the information. I appreciate it!





Another reply to Rich

Posted by Trish on January 19, 2001 at 11:34:20:

In Reply to: Re: To Dr. Stoll posted by Rich on January 18, 2001 at 20:11:04:

Hi again, I thought I should also mention that I have always had really bad circulation and thin blood. I never could rest my chin in the palm of my hand because it would cut off the circulation to my hand in a matter of moments. Also, two weeks ago, just before my right shoulder and arm really started bothering me, I woke up in the morning and discovered I had been sleeping on my arm strange. I think all the blood in my arm had become trapped in my hand...lol...because my fingers were so swollen and BIG and the feeling of letting the blood out was sooo strange. I have had limbs fall asleep of course but this was worse. My shoulder started hurting that very day and has hurt since. Do you think this is what triggered the pain? The small amount of blood flow during the night? While reading up about the prolotherapy it mentions about the blood flow around the tendons not being enough. And I have noticed that when my arm and shoulder is really hurting, that if I raise my arm above my head or sleep w/ it raised on a pillow, the pain is not is great. Perhaps these are other indications of tendonitis. I don't mean to sound so excited about this but I am actually beginning to see a light at the end of this tunnel after so many years. And if I can be told that what I have is tendonitis and NOT RA I will be very happy :o) Again, thank you.




Re: Another reply to Rich

Posted by
Rich on January 19, 2001 at 12:56:56:

In Reply to: Another reply to Rich posted by Trish on January 19, 2001 at 11:34:20:

Did the swelling go down after a while? or are you constantly swollen now? With this addional information, I would be hesitant to say one way or the other which it could be. You may do well going to a naturopath and getting a complete blood work up and see what is found. I would be curious to see how your thyroid is functioning (which plays a large role in circulation). Also, the other blood work can give a general idea of what this may be. Do you get clicking, snapping or popping in or around the joint? this can indicate inflammation or a torn or lose ligament or tendon. I think you need to dig deeper with this issue. I can see how much you have been through already with this but I think it is important to examine every possibility. The symptoms you describe are not classis or tendonitis, RA, or anything I have knowledge of. some aspects match and others do not. do not despair. There is a reason for this. what kind of testing have you had so far and what can anyone say for sure?

Rich



Re: To Trish

Posted by Rich on January 19, 2001 at 13:07:16:

In Reply to: Re: To Rich posted by Trish on January 19, 2001 at 11:32:33:

unfortunately, the orthapedic will probably know nothing of it. Still, it wouldn't hurt to see a prolo doc and see what he thinks of your condition. when I think of the cramping up, the pain traveling to the big toe, the elbow and down the arm, I can't help but to think of a compressed nerve more than anything elese. have you had any spinal x-rays or MRI? If not, I would not that.

Tendonitis will not show up on an x-ray. No soft tissue shows up on x-rays, only bone. this will not help you. It will, however, confirm weather or not you have osteoarthritis or degenerative disk disease that may be compressing a nerve and causing referal pain to places in your body.

Since you have had this since 14, I would be very hesistant to say you have RA. After this many years of RA, you would have joint damage beyond repair. You would most certainly have bone errosion by now (which you don't). if untreated, RA can cause irreversable damage within 1 year. but of course, there is no way of knowing if this condition progressed into RA after this many years. Further lab tests are needed. SED rate, C-reactive protein, Fluid byopsy of joint, all these things can point to a diagnosis of RA or help to flaw it. I personally think of the nervous system being involved. It isn't a clear-cut answer and solution but it gives you somewhere to go. let me know how things go after more testing

Rich



Re: Another reply to Rich

Posted by Trish on January 19, 2001 at 13:59:41:

In Reply to: Re: Another reply to Rich posted by Rich on January 19, 2001 at 12:56:56:

Well, my finger is still swollen and doesn't lay out completely straight unless I force it to...which causes a lot of pain, but when I first wake up and it's bent a lot I can feel the tendon stretched really tight at the base of my finger (on the underside). As for my shoulders and arms, finally after 2 weeks the pain is easing but I have sharp pains that shoot along my arm when I raise it or move it a certain way. Most often when it is hurting severely, I have to use my other arm to help move it because it feels weak...like my muscles are not working. The swelling in my knee caps have gone down, although they still ache if I am sitting and need to stand. As for my toes, they don't hurt too bad until I put on my shoes, and then it is uncomfortable. As for cracking and popping sounds...definitely. My bones are always cracking and popping (joints) especially in my knees. I have been taking around 4800mg of Motrin a day and up till 2 days ago that had NO effect on me. Now I am starting to notice some relief and have lowered the dosage. I have also started taking MSM two days ago, so perhaps this is helping as well.

In the past I have had blood work done to see how much inflammation is in my blood. I have had numerous RA tests done (Every 6 months and they have always been negative). I have had usual tests done to make sure I am not anemic..etc...but nothing beyond that really. I did have a timing test done once because my doctor thought I might be a hemophiliac (not sure about the proper spelling)...which of course is someone that bleeds and has trouble getting it to stop. After being pricked I was still bleeding 20 minutes later...but I don't think that has anything to do w/ my problems now anyway....

My husband also mentioned something about my having a pinched nerve or something. So perhaps this is something I can mention to my doctor. I have never been to a chiroprator (sp) Can they also diagnose something like this??

I guess all I can really do is explain my symptoms to the orthopedic and see what he has to say...right?

Thanks



Re: Another reply to Rich

Posted by
Rich on January 20, 2001 at 01:06:57:

In Reply to: Re: Another reply to Rich posted by Trish on January 19, 2001 at 13:59:41:

hi Trish. I am not a doctor but i have a lot of experience in this area. Some aspects of what you descrive are classic of RA: Swolen fingers and joints that become deformed and don't straighten out properly. But, some symptoms are not so clear. Let me ask you, do you have any tingling or any numbness anywhere in your body? This would indicate pinched nerve but it could also be a complication of RA if it were advanced enough. What did the results of your SED rate come back as (This indicates inflammation)? You say you had an RA factor done and it was negative. This is not uncommon, even for people with RA. You might need some newere tests like the C-reactive protein and possibly a fluid biopsy of the joint. This could make a more complete clinical picture. The snapping and popping is a combination of inflammation, weakness, and laxity in the tendons and ligaments that surround the joints. Without strong tendons and ligaments, your joint moves beyond its range of motion and you get arthritis. This is where prolo comes in. However, if you have an autoimmune disorder, prolo will do next to nothing until the autoiummune reaction is stopped. Then, you can use the prolo to heal yourself. This is tough. I wish I knew more that I could tell you. the best thing you can do is to keep digging and get testing you haven't gotten or go to a different doctor and get re-tested. You will find the answer. Please keep me posted on new developments. Take care

Rich



Re: Another reply to Rich

Posted by Trish on January 20, 2001 at 12:44:00:

In Reply to: Re: Another reply to Rich posted by Rich on January 20, 2001 at 01:06:57:

Rich,

I got the SED test done this last time (about 4 months ago) when I was not in much pain and my doctor told me it was "pretty" normal. However, I have had them done in the past while I lived in Ks. and was always told they indicated a lot of inflammation. Since no medication they put me on eased my pain, that is when they started giving me Predisone. I have only taken it "maybe" 8 times since I was 12. I know it is very harmful to your body but it sure makes me feel better after only one dosage.

I will explain everything to this new doctor and go from there. My family doctor has already made me an appt. with a rheumatolgist for sometime in early March...so I guess if this orthopedic says I do not have tendonitis, the rheumatologist should be able to clear everything up for me. I want to thank you for all of your advice and information. I really appreciate it. I will venture back to this site upon occassion and update you on my progress. Again, thank you ;o)



Also, high SED rate can indicate infection. Just something to consider.

Posted by Rich on January 20, 2001 at 17:23:35:

In Reply to: Re: Another reply to Rich posted by Trish on January 20, 2001 at 12:44:00:

nmi



Re: Also, high SED rate can indicate infection. Just something to consider.

Posted by Trish on January 20, 2001 at 21:40:22:

In Reply to: Also, high SED rate can indicate infection. Just something to consider. posted by Rich on January 20, 2001 at 17:23:35:

Rich,

While looking for readings about my tight tendons in my fingers, I came across a disease called scleroderma. It sounds almost identical to what I have....although I'm sure a lot of things do...but have you ever heard of this?



hmm.or maybe not

Posted by Trish on January 20, 2001 at 21:56:28:

In Reply to: Re: Also, high SED rate can indicate infection. Just something to consider. posted by Trish on January 20, 2001 at 21:40:22:

Well...the article I had read was called Muscle/Joint-Scleroderma...and that all sounded familar, but as I search more I see there are TONS of different types of schleroderma. Most if not all that do not fit any of my symptoms...Oh well...was just a thought...



hmm, no. i have come accross this briefly in my research, but don't enough to comment. I will do some research

Posted by Rich on January 20, 2001 at 23:51:36:

In Reply to: hmm.or maybe not posted by Trish on January 20, 2001 at 21:56:28:

nmi



Rheumatoid nodule/Carpal tunnel

Posted by Trish on January 24, 2001 at 11:26:38:

In Reply to: hmm, no. i have come accross this briefly in my research, but don't enough to comment. I will do some research posted by Rich on January 20, 2001 at 23:51:36:

Hey Rich,

Just wanted to update you on my progress. Most of the pain in my shoulders and upper arms disappeared the very day I started my period (which seems to happen almost every month). My middle finger on my right hand is still bent and will not straighten unless I force it to with my other hand. This of course causes a lot of pain, and once I wake up the next day it is bent again anyway. There is a hard little knot at the base of my finger, which I have read up on. They call this condition "Trigger finger"...w/ the main cause being rheumatoid arthritis. They call it rheumatoid nodule. They say the usual fix for this when it gets this bad is surgery...fun stuff. I am also experiencing pain right above my wrist (underside). Which from what I have read, could be carpal tunnel syndrome. Could the "locked" finger be causing this to ache? I also experience a numbness feeling in my hand and arm when I am typing. I hope this "rheumatoid nodule" does not mean I do indeed have rheumatoid arthrist like my doctor suspects. I do not want to have this disease! :o( But I guess I will not know for sure until I see the rheumatologist in March. At least by seeing the orthopedic in a few days will help discover if the problems with my shoulders/arms/wrist could be tendonitis.

Do you think it would be a good idea to buy a wrist brace at Wal-Mart to wear until I see the doctor? I don't see how this could hurt anything. What do you think?

As always...THANKS!



Re: Rheumatoid nodule/Carpal tunnel

Posted by Trish on January 24, 2001 at 11:42:58:

In Reply to: Rheumatoid nodule/Carpal tunnel posted by Trish on January 24, 2001 at 11:26:38:

I should also add that I have had this trigger finger problem before. Sometimes on both hands (usually only the middle finger). Right now the right is the one bothering me but the left one hurts to bend in the morning but does not have a nodule on it. The right hand finger has been like this for almost 3 weeks now. This is the first time it has ever stayed this way longer than a few days. My question is, should I see a doctor NOW or would it be okay to wait till the 30th when I see my orthopedic?




Re: Rheumatoid nodule/Carpal tunnel (Archive in arthritis.)

Posted by Walt Stoll on January 26, 2001 at 09:01:42:

In Reply to: Re: Rheumatoid nodule/Carpal tunnel posted by Trish on January 24, 2001 at 11:42:58:

Hi, Trish.

NOTHING the "DOCTOR" does will make any long term difference in this problem. It is up to YOU to learn about it and DO something about it ASAP.

Walt



Re: Rheumatoid nodule/Carpal tunnel (Archive in arthritis.)

Posted by Trish on January 26, 2001 at 14:28:51:

In Reply to: Re: Rheumatoid nodule/Carpal tunnel (Archive in arthritis.) posted by Walt Stoll on January 26, 2001 at 09:01:42:

I AM taking care of it on MY own, my post was actually meant for RICH...



Re: Rheumatoid nodule/Carpal tunnel

Posted by Rich on January 31, 2001 at 14:13:59:

In Reply to: Re: Rheumatoid nodule/Carpal tunnel posted by Trish on January 24, 2001 at 11:42:58:

Hi Trish. Sorry I didn't answer in a while. I couldn't get my screen to browse down this far. I agree with what Dr. Stoll said above, however, it can be difficult to do when you really don't know exactly what you are up against. I can relate. If you KNOW what you are up against, taking your own actions, as you are, is best. But, if there is any uncertainty, see the doctor, see what he tells you is the problem, find out what he would do, and either accept it and treat it his way or make your way back here and we can all work together on it here. Let me know how it goes. If you are going to see the doctor, go soon and get it done with. Dr. Stoll probably figures that if you go, you will wind up on medications and things that will do nothing for the problem and only make things worse. Plus, he may not know what is wrong and simply recommend surgery. TTYL.

Rich



Re: To Rich

Posted by Trish on February 03, 2001 at 13:39:27:

In Reply to: Re: Rheumatoid nodule/Carpal tunnel posted by Rich on January 31, 2001 at 14:13:59:

Hi Rich,

Actually I went to see the orthopedic last week. He took several x-rays of both my shoulders. He circled spots above the bursa and said something about "shaving". He is Chinese and a little hard for me to understand. He made an appointment for me to have two MRI's done on both shoulders before deciding on what to do next. Of course the MRI's are scheduled on my 27th birthday but that's okay I guess. LOL...anyways...I felt NO pain for a week but now it is coming back again *SIGH*...oh well...hopefully this will all be resolved soon. Do you think it is possible that the inflammation in my shoulders gets so severe in my blood that it travels to my other joints? Seems funny that when my shoulders and arms start hurting, that my finger immediately starts hurting to and going into the trigger effect...very strange. But anyway, the orthopedic seems to think he has a pretty good idea of what is going on and said there was probably only a 20% chance that it was RA. He could tell from the X-Rays that the joints looked healthy. So that is good news....at least for now...lol...anyway, the MRI's are the 8th and I will let you know what I find out. Thanks so much for all the advice and info. I really appreciate it.



Re: To Rich

Posted by Trish on February 14, 2001 at 16:50:18:

In Reply to: Re: To Rich posted by Trish on February 03, 2001 at 13:39:27:

Hey again Rich....hope your cruise was a lot of fun and relaxing!!

My MRI's showed a partial rotator cuff tear in my right shoulder and tendonitis in both shoulders. Since I have had this pain for several years the doctor wants to do arthroscopic surgery to have a better look and do some decompression....This is scheduled for the 16th of March. I will let you know how I feel after this is over w/.



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