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nmi
In Reply to: Can a normal family doctor prescribe toenail fungus medicine or do I have to goto an actual podiatrist for this? nmi posted by curious on April 17, 2002 at 08:51:22:
Have you tried the Walt's vinegar treatment? It's in the archives if you haven't. That treatment seems to work better than any other. Raisa
In Reply to: Can a normal family doctor prescribe toenail fungus medicine or do I have to goto an actual podiatrist for this? nmi posted by curious on April 17, 2002 at 08:51:22:
you must use birth control because the medication can cause birth defects.
Before I started researching nutrition, etc. I was going to take the anti-fungal, but I considered two things; the cost factor, and how this might damage my body. Since you have to take it for 7 or 8 months, consider what it can (and will) do to the rest of your body while you are on this medication.
Good luck!
In Reply to: Re: Can a normal family doctor prescribe toenail fungus medicine or do I have to goto an actual podiatrist for this? nmi posted by Raisa on April 17, 2002 at 10:19:13:
Hi Raisa,
Yes, believe me, I am VERY familiar with and have been doing the vinegar treatment now for about 8 months and the nails will start to grow in clear up to about halfway than they for some reason get reinfected again. I already know about all the susceptability factors involved and I have been decreasing them all. I change my socks twice per day, I use baby powder to keep the feet more dry, terrycloth between the toes during every shower etc.. and I never miss a dose of two applications per day. The only thing I can think that could possibly be left to try is SR and I started that about 2 weeks ago. I just don't have the patience anymore to wait another 6 to 12 months to find out that SR doesn't work either. It's almost summer now and I can't believe that the vinegar is failing me and I'm losing this ROTTEN BATTLE! I took sporanax for this and it cleared it right up for about 4 years so I KNOW that it WORKS and it works well. It doesn't matter to me if sporanax is hard on your liver, I guess I would rather die than to hide my damn feet all the time. Let me tell ya... that is what is agonizing and VERY deppressing. It's like a piece of your freedom has been stolen from you.
The reason I asked if going to a regular doctor was ok as opposed to going to an actual podiatrist was that my local podiatrist told me he would not prescribe Sporanax to me again unless it worsened (because HE didn't belive the nails were that bad at the time) and that was about 11 months ago. It seems as if during the vinegar treatment (which I started back in August) my right big toe which was not infected is starting to get infected now. I don't need BOTH the Left and Right big toes infected along with the three smallest ones on my right foot. I just hate my podiatrist for not presribing that to me back last May. Now I not only went last summer through MISERY now I have to go this summer through hell again. Now I can't swim or goto the beach or anything like that.
A person that doesn't have this condition has no idea what it does to someone who does. This just has me feeling so down and alone.
I'm sorry to ramble on to you like this. It's just that you people on this great wonderful board are the only people that I can talk to about this. It's REALLY embarrasing for me for some reason. I feel like if people see my nails like they are that they will think I am not a clean person but a disgusting slob, and that just is not so. The rest of my body is fine. I just can't help the way my brain thinks. I guess I am like this now because I am 27 years old and have dealt with this disaster MY WHOLE LIFE except for the 4 woderful years that sporanax cured me. I never had any side effects at all the first time I used it.
Thanx everyone for reading this.
brad
In Reply to: Re: Can a normal family doctor prescribe toenail fungus medicine or do I have to goto an actual podiatrist for this? nmi posted by curious (brad) on April 17, 2002 at 12:30:04:
I know how you feel about your toenail. I felt the same way. I remember feeling like I was so disgusting when a little girl came up to me and said "Ew, what's wrong with your toe - that's gross." I lived with the infection for years and years. Even though it’s just your toenail, it really affects the way you feel about yourself. I did the sporonox and the lamisil and finally the vinegar.
The one funny thing I find about your situation is that you are willing to risk the effects of the sporonox again and, if I use your logic, it didn't work either. I know you said it did, but then why is the infection back again - even if it is after four years? A total infection of your toe takes about six months - not over night. And, if a specialist won't prescribe the medication for you, that's a really big red flag because it is usually easy to get prescriptions. I suggest you pay attention to that red flag. The vinegar works, believe me, but you have to get rid of the problems that are making you have this recurring infection too. I know you think you have, but the fact is you haven't or you wouldn't have the infection again.
Another factor could be that your vinegar goes stale. I bought very small bottles of vinegar so that I always had a fresh supply. Are you using distilled white vinegar with 5% acidity? After one year, my toenail was completely cleared up and it took about 6 more months after that to re-grow a complete nail. All total, I used the vinegar for 18 months. I used it even when my nail looked normal, but before it grew back all the way.
I really doted on my toe. I was obsessive about keeping it trimmed and scraped clean. When I did the vinegar treatment at night, I would put vinegar not only at the base, but try to get it underneath the top as well where it was being eaten down. I don't think this made a big difference, but it made me feel better and made me think that I was really preventing the fungus from growing further in my toe.
As in anything, mastery takes time; healing takes time and you have to have the patience and the will to see it through. For your sake, I hope you don't take the sporonox or lamisil route. Anyway, what good is that medication going to do you this summer? - You have to stay out of the sun when you're on it anyway.
In Reply to: I know how you feel posted by Donna E. on April 17, 2002 at 13:18:14:
Hi Donna,
Thank you for your response.
When you say I have to get rid of "the problems" that are causing the reoccuring infection, just what are they "the problems" anyway? Are there any other susceptibility factors that I should be preventing that I didn't already mention? Is skilled relaxation what your getting at that I must give a chance? I'm just such a skeptic in thinking that this could be the final factor in holding me back from curing this. Do you do sr? Is not doing sr what took you so long to cure your infection or were you doing sr the whole time you were using the vinegar?
I do use the white distilled vinegar distilled to 5% acidity. I haven't been buying the little bottles though. Maybe it is possible that the vinegar I was using for the longest time was stale. I don't know though because it did smell quite strong like it was fresh.
When you applied the vingar to the base of the nail, did you losen up the cuticle at all to ensure proper obsorption? I was just wondering if this has to be done. I'm just so frustrated because one of my nails was so close to almost being cleared and then it got reinfected.
I know if the sporanax worked that this should be working. Dr Stoll already told me that. I just wonder why the vinegar is not working as fast as the sporanax did.
In Reply to: Re: Can a normal family doctor prescribe toenail fungus medicine or do I have to goto an actual podiatrist for this? nmi posted by curious (brad) on April 17, 2002 at 12:30:04:
Hi, Brad -
I agree with Donna when she says that you must be reinfecting yourself somehow. Easier said than finding out how, I know! It's encouraging that you said that the nail started to grow halfway up and then get reinfected. Did you try buying new white socks and using new towels, just in case the fungus isn't killed by washing? How about changing foot powder? Do you mean that it looks as if it is clearing up and you keep doing the treatment as often but it becomes immune to the vinegar and comes back again?
You could try going to another podiatrist or even a GP just to see if he/she knows of any way you could be reinfecting yourself. And if you are really determined to try that drug again, I'm sure there's some doctor out there who will give it to you, or at least look further into the cause. Many others here have had the same problem you are having, and I'm sure you'll hear from the ones who have solved it. Also, Dr. Stoll might know some reason for it.
People with acne feel the same way - I know that doesn't help you, but at least your feet don't show that much. Sure wish I could help more. Raisa
In Reply to: Re: I know how you feel posted by brad on April 17, 2002 at 14:33:54:
“When you say I have to get rid of "the problems" that are causing the reoccuring infection, just what are they "the problems" anyway?”
Have you heard of Leaky Gut Syndrome? I believe this is what made me most susceptible to the infection, among a few other factors.
“Is skilled relaxation what your getting at that I must give a chance? I'm just such a skeptic in thinking that this could be the final factor in holding me back from curing this. Do you do sr? Is not doing sr what took you so long to cure your infection or were you doing sr the whole time you were using the vinegar?”
I did not do Skilled Relaxation then. But, I do believe in a very strong mind/body connection. What took so long, is that this kind of infection does take that long to clear. You are talking a minimum of 6 months. If you just miss one dose – one dose – it can set you back because the fungus will jump back into the unprotected cells – the cells that you did not get with the vinegar. And, in the beginning, I did miss a few doses.
“I do use the white distilled vinegar distilled to 5% acidity. I haven't been buying the little bottles though. Maybe it is possible that the vinegar I was using for the longest time was stale. I don't know though because it did smell quite strong like it was fresh.”
I’m not sure if vinegar really goes stale, or loses its acidity, but it made me feel better just to have the “fresh” vinegar.
“When you applied the vingar to the base of the nail, did you losen up the cuticle at all to ensure proper obsorption? I was just wondering if this has to be done. I'm just so frustrated because one of my nails was so close to almost being cleared and then it got reinfected.
Once I became obsessive with applying the vinegar routinely, I would loosen the cuticle before applying the vinegar. Every single night, I would scrape the dead cuticle away and clean around the clipped nail with a metal nail file. Then I would apply the vinegar. In the morning, I would just apply the vinegar. Whether or not that made a difference, I have no idea, but I believed it did and it didn’t hurt. The only way a re-infection can occur is if you miss those particular cells that get re-infected. As I understand, the cells grow every 14 hours and if you miss just one dose, those cells that grew in that 14-hour period would not have been protected with the vinegar and therefore are susceptible to the fungus. So, I think that once I became fanatical about applying the vinegar, that’s what finally got rid of the fungus. I was so fanatical, that I carried a bottle in my purse as well as kept one at home. I used clean squirt bottles. Some people have used baby bottles to apply the vinegar.
Another factor that I think was involved in keeping the fungus away is that I have not taken one dose of antibiotics since beginning the vinegar treatment to now. I was given round after round of antibiotics for a medical condition I had that caused me to keep getting sinus infections. It was during this antibiotic abuse that my toenail became infected. I was also taking them when I was on the Sporonox and the Lamisil. We’re all exposed to fungus everyday, why one person gets an infection and the other doesn’t is determined by what is going on in your body to make you susceptible or resistant to it. If I were you, I would get Walt’s book and read it thoroughly. If you have it already, read it again. Don’t just read one section of it that you think pertains to you. There is valuable information all throughout the book regarding your PERSONAL health. It is a long road to mastery and you have to make it a priority.
This symptom of the infected toenails is a beginning for you to discover how to live a really healthy, balanced life. I think that the fact it bothers you so much is a kick in the pants to get you started on a discovery period about your health, your mind and your soul. I hope you seek out this education. Besides the book, this board, the archives and Walt’s articles are a good place to start.
In Reply to: Re: Can a normal family doctor prescribe toenail fungus medicine or do I have to goto an actual podiatrist for this? nmi posted by Raisa on April 17, 2002 at 14:42:43:
Thanks again Raisa for your helpful response.
I will buy all new socks and towels just incase the washings aren't killing it. I just thought that it would have. I am using regular baby powder right now because it's talcum powder. I was using tinactin then I stopped because it's cornstarch and I read somewhere that cornstarch foot powders were no good to use for fungus. I have wondered if the fungus can become resistant to the vinegar.
I never knew about the vinegar treatment until well after my fungus had come back after being cleared. I think if I take the sporanax again and it clears it up, I will use the vinegar once I see it starting to come back if it even would. I have one nail out of the 5 that were cleared up with the sporanax that started to reinfect and I was able to clear it with the vinegar before it got to bad. I just think that once tha nails are all healthy again with the sporanax it will be easier to keep them healthy with the knoledge I have now. There were alot of susceptability factors that I wasn't paying attention to after the sporanax cleared it the first time. I will definetely pay attention next time. I may give the vinegar a few more months to see what happens.
brad
brad
brad
In Reply to: Re: Can a normal family doctor prescribe toenail fungus medicine or do I have to goto an actual podiatrist for this? nmi posted by curious (brad) on April 17, 2002 at 12:30:04:
I don't have this problem, but I have read a few posts & some of the archives about it, out of curiosity. I think I remember reading that Dr. Stoll recommends using desenex powder sprinkled on the feet and inside the socks. Maybe that would do more to knock out the fungus than the baby powder and still soak up extra moisture. What about using cornstarch?
Also, you mentioned not being able to go swimming and to the beach because of your feet. Could you wear mesh & rubber aqua socks? I think they look kinda cool, not nerdy, and they definitely would protect your feet against sharp objects and hot sand. I see a lot of people wearing socks with sandals, too, especially Birkenstocks and Tevas or sport sandals. Not too bad a look, depending on what type of socks. Another option would be to get some of those fisherman-type sandals. Kinda halfway between shoes and sandals, so your food would be more covered, but still cool.
Hmmm, could your shoes be reinfecting your feet?
Good luck.
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Re: Can a normal family doctor prescribe toenail fungus medicine or do I have to goto an actual podiatrist for this? nmi posted by curious (brad) on April 17, 2002 at 12:30:04:
Hey Brad,
Why are you hiding your feet? Why are you letting what your feet look like control how you feel about yourself? I really think you need to address those issues instead of worrying about your toes. Take one look at someone without a foot and consider yourself lucky that you ONLY have nail fungus or whatever.
In Reply to: Re: I know how you feel posted by Donna E. on April 17, 2002 at 15:36:10:
Hi Donna,
Yes, I have heard of LGS. I thought about this as possibly being a problem but my stomache never seems to bother me at all and I am in very good health. My eating habits are very good. I never eat fast food, and I eat plenty of fruits and vegetables and I take vitamin c and a multi-vitamin daily and the fact that it took 4 years to reinfect after it was cleared makes me think it isn't LGS. I guess I should read more about it. It just all seems like such a waste of time to research all these diseases and not know for sure if that's the problem. I guess I'm just so frustrated with the this that I am running out of patience.
I noticed that you said the cells that reinfect grow every 14hrs. There have been a few days were I went more than 14hrs without a dose. I may have went 16 or even 18hrs. I wonder if that's the reason. I just thought that as long as you dosed twice in a 24hr period that was ok. I get up at 5:00am to work, I wash my feet and nails really good with soap and water then I apply the first dose and use baby powder before putting on my shoes and I goto work and change my socks about 5 hrs later at 10:00am, then I get off work at 2:30, I come home and do 15 miutes worth of cardiovascular exercise everyday, then do SR, and at around 5:00pm I take a shower and wash my feet again really good and apply the second dose. Sorry about all the boring details but does anything here that I'm doing sound wrong to you?
brad
In Reply to: A couple of suggestions...msg posted by Nutmeg on April 17, 2002 at 18:27:22:
Hi nutmeg,
Thanks for the extra tips.
I don't know about the socks with sandles though. I know what you mean, and I have seen people do this but I guess I never liked the look. I will try the desenex instead of baby powder as long as it isn't a cornstarch base. I heard this is bad.
brad
In Reply to: Re: Can a normal family doctor prescribe toenail fungus medicine or do I have to goto an actual podiatrist for this? nmi posted by brad on April 17, 2002 at 18:20:41:
In Reply to: Re: I know how you feel posted by brad on April 17, 2002 at 18:43:22:
Brad - That is the reason for the failure!! You must not have been following the directions properly! go to this link and if you have not been doing the treatment this way and this often, please try it again before asking for drugs.
Raisa
In Reply to: Re: Can a normal family doctor prescribe toenail fungus medicine or do I have to goto an actual podiatrist for this? nmi posted by BarbaraN on April 17, 2002 at 18:32:42:
Hi Barbara,
I know....I SHOULD feel glad that I have my health and all my limbs. It's just that after having this problem for so many years It has affected my brain and it's not something that a person sees everyday and when they see it I can just imagine what they think about you.
This warm weather the last few days has really deppressed me when it should be making me HAPPY. I apologize to anybody reading my posts that has a much worse problem. Unfortunetely, to me, this is a terrible problem. It's just holding me back in life cause I'm so embarresed of it. I think it's the fact that all my life people have drilled into my head how good looking I am etc..etc.. and I just feel so guilty knowing I have this dreaded fungus that they don't see hidden under my shoes. It's like living a scary nightmare for me. I can't help it. Sorry.
brad
In Reply to: Re: I know how you feel posted by Raisa on April 17, 2002 at 19:02:10:
Besides not applying some doses for 16-18hrs. everything else I said sounded ok,right?
I checked out the link you gave me and it didn't say anything about the length of time to go between doses.
I am applying two drops to the base of each infected nail twice daily. Sometimes more than two.
brad
In Reply to: Re: A couple of suggestions...msg posted by brad on April 17, 2002 at 18:52:05:
Since you said you were going to buy new socks anyway, you might want to look into breathable socks. Fabrics/yarns like Cool-Max and others are showing up in most of the technical socks in sporting goods stores. I know white cotton has always been the standard recommendation for foot troubles, but the breathable socks really seem to help wick moisture away from the feet and prevent the soggy foot feeling. They often come in other colors, even black. Another thing that should help is to wear leather or canvas shoes for every day and make sure any sports shoes (running, walking, tennis) you wear have mesh panels for ventilation. Try going around in just your stocking feet when you are home.
Nutmeg
In Reply to: Re: I know how you feel posted by brad on April 17, 2002 at 19:23:11:
Right! Except that those missed 16-18 hours gave it time to 'regroup' and get ready to attack again! So, now you should be able to kill it off for good. Good luck - you have a good start! Raisa
In Reply to: Re: I know how you feel posted by brad on April 17, 2002 at 18:43:22:
I see your point. I just gave you what happened to me from my perspective and what was going on with my body. I am sure when Dr. Stoll answers tomorrow, he will give you a lot better information.
In Reply to: Re: Can a normal family doctor prescribe toenail fungus medicine or do I have to goto an actual podiatrist for this? nmi posted by BarbaraN on April 17, 2002 at 18:32:42:
Of course you are right Barbara N., but there is something about having this scourge on your toes that really makes you feel icky. I don't know how to explain it, but I felt the same way Brad does when I had the infection.
In Reply to: Re: I know how you feel posted by Raisa on April 17, 2002 at 19:33:51:
I really hope that is the problem.
I will let you know in the next few months how it is going.
Thanks again Raisa for your time and input.
brad
In Reply to: Re: I know how you feel posted by Donna E. on April 17, 2002 at 19:34:04:
I will stay consistant with not going more than 12 hrs between each dose and see what happens.
Thanks Donna for all your helpful ideas and time.
brad
In Reply to: Re: I know how you feel posted by brad on April 17, 2002 at 20:13:51:
Well, I htink that this problem is related to Candida - many people who have digestive problems often have Rosacea or toenail infections. Gee, I get to have both...
so, I've drastically changed my diet - check out the Whole Body Eclolgy Diet (they have a website). I started this diet two weeks ago...my Rosacea is clearing up, I'm losing weight (although were talking pretty small love handles here) as I'm really active. I cut out processed carbs and started munching many more vegetables...I have a feeling my toenails are going to start clearing up a well...thoguh I'm going to start doing the vinegar treatment as well. I also do the meditation thing...let's just say I've been undergoing a wholesale lifestyle change...good luck...my advice is to watch your diet as well.
In Reply to: Re: Can a normal family doctor prescribe toenail fungus medicine or do I have to goto an actual podiatrist for this? nmi posted by curious (brad) on April 17, 2002 at 12:30:04:
~~~8>
In Reply to: Brad, have you gotten new shoes???? That is an issue. nmi posted by labrat on April 17, 2002 at 21:32:34:
Hi Labrat,
I wonder if that could be the major problem that's holding me back. I have the same pairs of sneakers and shoes that I had before I started the vinegar treatment. This may just be the "BIG ISSUE" that I've been missing! I hope.
Thanks : )
brad
In Reply to: Re: Can a normal family doctor prescribe toenail fungus medicine or do I have to goto an actual podiatrist for this? nmi posted by brad on April 17, 2002 at 19:05:22:
This warm weather the last few days has really deppressed me when it should be making me HAPPY
Then go out and BE happy!! Don't let your fungus hold you back. Perhaps if you stopped focusing on your toenails, they'd get better. The stress that you are giving yourself by focusing on them is only increasing your suseptibility! No one is going to pay any attention to your toes. I don't look at anyone's toes when I'm out. FREE YOUR TOES!! Give them bad boys some light and air and say piss on the world if they don't like it LOL
Do what you want to do and don't let ANYTHING hold you back!
In Reply to: Don't want to sound flakey or conceited, but... posted by Donna E. on April 17, 2002 at 19:41:02:
I used to have my days when I was very conceited. I remember one time when I got a very bad haircut and refused to go out. My boyfriend gave me a very quick reality check. His face is terribly disfigured but he goes out and faces the world everyday. Kind of humbles ya and sets your priorities straight. I think it also helps to live in europe where everyone just lets it all hang out LOL
In Reply to: Can a normal family doctor prescribe toenail fungus medicine or do I have to goto an actual podiatrist for this? nmi posted by curious on April 17, 2002 at 08:51:22:
Thanks, curious.
It is now generally accepted that ALL treatments have at least a 50% placebo effect and IF the doctor believes in her treatment, and conveys that confidence to the patient, the positive placebo effect reaches more than 70%.
Human nature magnifies the positive placebo effect the more expensive the remedy is.
Now you know why TV commercials are so effective for medicine.
Namaste`
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Brad, have you gotten new shoes???? That is an issue. nmi posted by brad on April 18, 2002 at 07:07:50:
Yes, it could be the big problem...I'm certain the fungus would be concentrated there, and since you are still susceptible, it's best to minimize exposure. Time to shop for new shoes, you lucky dog!! Maybe if you get some new ones and keep up the vinegar and continue dealing with the susceptibility factors, you can avoid the drugs.
Good luck Brad and listen to BarbaraN too...she's got a great attitude!!!
~~~8>
In Reply to: Re: Brad, have you gotten new shoes???? That is an issue. nmi posted by labrat on April 18, 2002 at 09:45:08:
That's it.....I'm buying like 3 new pairs tonight!!
I will just stick with the vinegar then and avoid the drugs for now. Wow...I really feel like this could be the problem. It makes perfect cense(spelling?) I don't know why the hell I didn't think of that before. I think you gave me the winning clue!!!!
Thanks again Labrat and everybody...yes, you too, Barbara!
In Reply to: Re: Brad, have you gotten new shoes???? That is an issue. nmi posted by Brad on April 18, 2002 at 10:03:49:
Hi, Brad - That has to be the problem!! And be sure to thow your old sneakers away!! And please throw away any slippers, sandals, etc. that you have worn before. Good luck!! You're on your way to recovery without drugs - I would bet on it! Raisa
In Reply to: Re: Brad, have you gotten new shoes???? That is an issue. nmi posted by Raisa on April 18, 2002 at 10:57:29:
Oh ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm trashing every single pair of sneakers and shoes that I own. I wish I would have done this months ago, but oh well, I least I feel there is hope now without the drugs.
I just knew there had to be at least one major susceptibility factor that I was missing. What a breath of fresh air this is for me :)
Namaste,
Brad
In Reply to: Can a normal family doctor prescribe toenail fungus medicine or do I have to goto an actual podiatrist for this? nmi posted by curious on April 17, 2002 at 08:51:22:
It is very hard to find a "NORMAL" doctor!
Majority of licenced doctors and members of AMA beside the Overconfidititis Doctoris Vulgaritis are also sufering from Greedititis Financialis.
Those two ilnesses make great majority of patients illnesses incurable.
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