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So, I have noticed that I can see some veins in my legs and I don't particularly find them aesthetically pleasing nor are they without discomfort. I have no idea if they are progressing or not. However, I have been getting a lot of soy in my diet. Some of it has to do with my eating habits and ethnic cuisines. Which brings me to a concern. I have been reading a lot about how hormonal fluctuations can contribut to inefficiencies and varicosities in veins. However, since people sometimes use soy as an alternative to HRT and soy has also been considered to have effects on breast health, I can't help but wonder if I should be avoiding soy products if I do not want to worsen the veins. What do you think? This is just a hypothesis that has been forming due to linking tidbits of info from this or that article. I am considering stopping my consumption of soy altogether although I really do love it.
In Reply to: Soy and Vein Inefficiency Connection? posted by Emmie on October 24, 2003 at 14:55:02:
Hi again,
I have had the varicose veins since I was very young, for about 35 years. I started drinking a lot of soy milk about a year ago. The vains are not smaller or bigger, they are the same they were so that brings me to the conclussion that it doesn't effect it one way or another but again, I am not an expert and it is only my experience.
Luba
In Reply to: Soy and Vein Inefficiency Connection? posted by Emmie on October 24, 2003 at 14:55:02:
In countries where soy beans are an important part of the diet (such as China, Korea, Viet Nam, and many other Asian countries), vericose veins hardly exist. So obviously eating soy doesn't cause vericose veins.
In Reply to: Re: Soy and Vein Inefficiency Connection?--No way! posted by bing on October 24, 2003 at 18:26:57:
I never said that they caused them. I simply want to know if they contribute.
I see the logic that you are trying to employ, but I have seen plenty of Asians with varicose veins in my day. Argument via analogy doesn't work for me here. I don't know that we know that they hardly exist in these populations. Moreover, please bear in mind that the Asian and the American have completely different genetic makeups. The theory of evolution is based on the simple predicate that individuals and certain genetically and geographically differing peoples are able to adjust or adapt to their environment and the elements to which they are exposed over generations. Therefore, it is entirely possible that a substance does have negative impacts, but that the Asian individual being exposed constantly to soy over generations has developed a genetic makeup that is no longer susceptible to these detrimental characteristics of said substance in order promote the efficiency of the individual and the survival of the group as a whole over time. The American has not been exposed to much soy at all. Soy is only recently becoming widely consumed in America although we have begun to produce a lot of the world's supply. Thus, to compare the Asian paradigm to that of the American is inappropriate in this case. There are definitely legitimate reasons to pose these questions.
Moreover, I have read articles that also indicate that some new research suggests that soy causes the brain to become gelatinous (sp?) in high amounts in certain groups but I don't see Asians with jelly filled heads running around either. It doesn't negate the fact that research suggests a correlation. Now I cannot verify the validity of the research, however, I do know that were Asians used in the study the results would be irretrievably skewed.
My physical anthropology professors in college would be rolling in their graves to hear people apply a paradigm true of one ethnic group to be true of another.
In Reply to: Soy and Vein Inefficiency Connection? posted by Emmie on October 24, 2003 at 14:55:02:
I've been using a soy-based nutritional supplement at least twice a day for the last four years. The vein in my left leg that gave me fits for years doesn't bother me anymore at all.
In Reply to: Re: Soy and Vein Inefficiency Connection? posted by Luba on October 24, 2003 at 15:37:06:
since you have had long time experience with varicose veins I wanted to ask you about them. I am developing this kind of problems. Have yours worsen over time. And just how bad have that gotten? Have that given you much trouble. I have many superficial varicosities and find them slowly getting worse and constantly find them uncomfortable.
In Reply to: Soy and Vein Inefficiency Connection? posted by Emmie on October 24, 2003 at 14:55:02:
This is something I read recently and since discovering, experiencing and seeing results of trigger point therapy, this could be a possibility for varicose veins. I don't know what Walt's opinion would be. It stated that trigger points in the soleus muscles can increase intramuscular pressure restricting circulation of the blood in the legs and contribute to the development of varicose veins.
The soleus muscle is the large muscle covering the back of the leg. You could try massage at the location of the three trigger points in back of the legs.
In Reply to: Soy and Vein Inefficiency Connection? posted by Emmie on October 24, 2003 at 14:55:02:
It seems to me that there is something to be thought about here. I don't know how closely the soy element mimicks the estrogen. It seems that it could possibly have a negative hormonal effect of positive hormonal effect dependent upon how closely soy and estrogen imitate each other. Could it have the opposite effect though? I know that hormone fluctuations can contribute to varicose veins but in which direction? I mean, I hear that sometimes it is in the aftermath of menopause that women develop varicose veins. Maybe supplementation with soy and such would be beneficial. In either case, I think that it would be prudent to determine if there is a correlation between the two things either way.
Keep us thinking, Emmie!!!!
In Reply to: Re: Soy and Vein Inefficiency Connection? posted by Varicoe vein sufferer-to Luba on October 25, 2003 at 03:43:02:
Hi, They are actually better now than they were years ago, ever since I started exercising regularely and heavily, they seemed to get less noticebale, maybe because the exercise improved the circulation, I am not sure but they don't hurt, I just have few permanent blue knots now that don't stick out as much as they used to. They were really bad when I was sedentary and weighed more, I just lost 28 pounds and that also seemed to have helped. I have a few blue veins on the front of my legs but they don't stick out, they just look like little blue rivers and I guess I just got used to them.
They used to really bother me before. I also eat better now and maybe that also had something to do with it. Do you do any exercise? If you don't, try to walk at least half an hour a day and do some resistance exercises too. I do a lot of treadmil, bike and weight training and now at 52 my legs look better than they did 10 years ago.
Good luck!!
Luba
In Reply to: Re: Soy and Vein Inefficiency Connection? posted by Luba on October 25, 2003 at 22:44:28:
Thanks Luba! I've really been afraid heavy exercise might make them worse. I do wear compression knee-hi's-they haven't quit progressing, don't know if they would have been worse though. What do you mean yours were worse when you were heavier and sedentary? Thanks for any help!
In Reply to: Re: Soy and Vein Inefficiency Connection? posted by Sally on October 25, 2003 at 09:29:31:
Congratulations, Sally, on your deeper understanding of the process.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: Soy and Vein Inefficiency Connection? posted by Sally on October 25, 2003 at 09:29:31:
This trigger point workbook I've been reading (based on the work of Travell and Simons) suggests that 75% of doctor's visits are probably due to trigger points but there are so many different manifestations so as to confuse the diagnosis. It's unfortunate that more people don't try this first since it would so readily obviate any other treatment.
In Reply to: Re: Soy and Vein Inefficiency Connection? posted by varicose vein sufferer-to Luba on October 25, 2003 at 23:31:09:
Hi again :-). When I was heavier and sitting most of the day ( I do all my business on line ), my legs and feet were always swallen and puffy and those big blue knots on my legs really protruding but since I started being more active, going to the gym and eating less processed stuff and more whole carbs, veggies, fruits and fiber and lean meat, the swelling in my feet went completely away, they haven't been swallen once and those protruding knots are not protruding anymore, they are flat, they are still blue but they don't botther me now. I assume it's due to better circulation since I am sure exercise improves it.
Good luck!
Luba
In Reply to: Soy and Vein Inefficiency Connection? posted by Emmie on October 24, 2003 at 14:55:02:
I've been doing lots of soy for more than 20 years- no vein problems, maybe you need to look at the rest of your diet.
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